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The Disrespect For Life

 
 
Taliesin181
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 03:37 pm
Holy jeez.

Brandon and Parados: First of all, I think we can all agree that merely shoving food in TS's throat would have killed her, since she doesn't have a swallow reflex. SO, any debate about "food ingested orally" vs. "food put in the mouth" can, I think, be attributed to a misunderstanding. Brandon, you did cite the case of the people trying to give TS food as supporting your argument, but I am willing to accept that you only meant it as a form of "give her food."

blueveinedrobber said:
Quote:
McGentrix wrote:
Terri Shiavo had no swallow reflex. That is why the food tube was neccessary.

And probably why he had a girlfriend.


Uncool. Funny, but uncool.


Secondly, I see the removal of her feeding tube as an example of respect for life, not disrespect. By taking out that feeding tube, they honored the person she was, who, according to her husband, did not want to be kept alive artificially. If all he wanted was to get with his girlfriend, he could have just divorced her. the only motivation for taking out the tube was either homicidal(unlikely), or just out of a true respect for his wife's wishes.


Thirdly, Brandon, in the beginning of this topic you said:

Quote:
It really should be very obvious that this thread was not intended to be simply about the TS case, although I can understand why some people want very much to restrict the discussion to that. It was intended to raise the general topic about whether our culture is promoting a respect for life, or moving towards the opposite. I think that the existence of the link I started the thread with on the Humor board is not an encouraging sign. At a minimum, it shows quite a lack of empathy.


However, when approached with parados' comments, you fell back upon it like a crutch.

Quote:
parados wrote:
Brandon wrote:
Quote:
Once the process of disrespect for life is allowed to start, it continues under its own momentum. I wonder what fraction of the people who wanted Terri Schiavo killed for her own good

I think this statement in and of itself shows how little you really know about life, in spite of all your claims to the contrary.

For thousands of years when an adult couldn't chew and swallow food they died. The recent disrespect seems to come from forcing them to stay alive in any way possible.

Oh, yes, I'm sure that the person who posted the link to the mocking Terri Schiavo dance was one of those who campaigned tirelessly for her to be allowed to have food and water.


I can understand the use of examples, but since you refused the TS example previously, only to use it yourself some 3 posts later, it is apparent that it is your only real example, which is fine, as long as you own up to that.


I think the real issue here is your inability to comprehend others' humor. Yes, Brandon, some people are assholes in their humor, but that doesn't make them miserable human beings. It makes them human. Imperfect, scared of death, and helplessness, humans who need jokes to ward off their own fears. Could they have done it more sensitively? Of course! But there's no need to brand them infidels and bar them from humanity.


I really hope we can end this endless bickering over the word "mouth" and get back to the real issue: respect for life. I would like to delve into it further, but if we're going to continue on this path of semantics, I would rather bow out. I hope to hear from you all soon.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 21 Apr, 2005 11:33 pm
DrewDad wrote:
...The juvenile humor of "doing the Schiavo" is fundamentally about being afraid of that which they mock.

For some people perhaps, but you appear to be denying the existence of people who mock the pain of others out of cruelty, when it is quite obvious that such people do exist. Some things really are primarily non-funny. I suppose it would be possible for someone sufficiently perverse to mock the 9/11 victims, for example the man and woman who jumped to their deaths from a burning building holding hands, but personally, I just don't find it amusing. I hesitate to point out the blindingly obvious, but laughing at three vaudevillians pretending to hit each other over the head with frying pans, is a bit different from mocking a brain damaged girl who just died.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 03:31 am
Not only is it possible for a person to "have respect for life" and to side with those who wanted the feeding tubes withdrawn from TS and others in her situation...

...it also is possible to "have respect for life" and prefer that a life ending solution be injected into the veins of people in that condition.

In fact...it probably shows more "respect for life" to be of that mind.

Not that I think people like Brandon can ever open up their minds enough to see that!
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 03:37 am
Brandon's right about the humour - not funny. And there's nothing wrong wtih saying it. Some things just aren't funny. That's one of them.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 06:55 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
...The juvenile humor of "doing the Schiavo" is fundamentally about being afraid of that which they mock.

For some people perhaps, but you appear to be denying the existence of people who mock the pain of others out of cruelty, when it is quite obvious that such people do exist.

Yes, such people do exist. If someone were to do this to one of the primaries in the case, then you might have a point.

Brandon9000 wrote:
I hesitate to point out the blindingly obvious, but laughing at three vaudevillians pretending to hit each other over the head with frying pans, is a bit different from mocking a brain damaged girl who just died.

How? Neither one is funny.




My point is that you are not the ultimate arbiter of what is or is not funny. You may believe that your taste is so universal and fine-tuned that no one may disagree with you, but you're wrong on that point just as you are on so many others.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 22 Apr, 2005 07:25 am
There are several things that make up comedy. I don't remember the complete ladder of comedy from my college days but it includes things like surpise, incongruity, repetition (the 3rd time is funny).


Some people find some things funny, other people don't. It is personal. Just like finding things offensive is personal.

I find it offensive that people would attempt to interfer in the personal tragedy of others and call them all kinds of names for making a decision that is obviously not easy. I REALLY find it offensive when it is done for political gain.

When I compare the actions of the person that made the Shaivo dance website to Tom Delay, I consider Delay's actions to be much more offensive and less respectful of life.
0 Replies
 
Taliesin181
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 03:25 pm
Parados: I agree: mocking someone's tragedy, while it is abhorrent, is less repugnant than taking that tragedy and making it into a three-ring circus to further oneself, thereby making it possible for someone to mock it. Tom DeLay is not the person to lecture anyone on ethics.
0 Replies
 
Greyfan
 
  1  
Reply Sun 24 Apr, 2005 08:20 pm
0 Replies
 
Taliesin181
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 01:39 pm
Greyfan: Very well put. Is that a book? I don't think I've ever heard of it, though the rhythm of the title does sound familiar. Thanks.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 01:43 pm
Stranger in a Strange Land, by Robert A. Heinlein, is one of the best books I've ever read. I highly recommend you buy a copy for yourself - you'll want to read it more than once.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 01:44 pm
Stranger in a Strange Land is one of Robert Heinlein's works. He remains very popular, and the book referred to was a cult classic among the young in the 1960's. Personally, i find him disgusting, but this is not a literary criticism thread. Suffice it to say, that among his self-satisfied fantasies, amidst the sexism and racism, there are to be found some "pearls of wisdom"--in my never humble opinion.
0 Replies
 
Taliesin181
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Apr, 2005 01:48 pm
Okay, thanks for the reccommendation. I'll find it next time I'm in the bookstore.
0 Replies
 
fredjones
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Apr, 2005 03:41 am
Frank Apisa wrote:
Why don't you people stop being so goddam afraid of death?


Frank is right. I hear so much about creating a "culture of life" but what does that really mean? It means "don't accept the fact that one day we all will die." Death is just as much a part of life as anything. It's not easy to deal with, but we must. Humor is the best way we have to keep our sanity. Talk to any police officer, firefighter, ER doctor. I'll bet they have some pretty good jokes that would certainly be considered black humor.
0 Replies
 
 

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