Prisoners 'killed' at US Base

What about innocent people locked away? Are you gonna torture them too? Give them a hard time untill they confess? Give me one day and i make anybody confess the Holocaust, the Apartheid regime AND the Ruanda massacre.

Only the Pope is Infallible. Prosecutors and investigators do make mistakes. Is justice done by killing/torturing innocent people? Does that relief the victims and their relatives?

The moral high ground here is self evident----the idealists are relishing this little discussion and anyone who questions anything about it will surely be make to pay.

I love the notion that only idealists occupy the moral high ground! Usually, these days, "idealist" is a code word for "impractical" or "unworldly." But if one looks back through history -- oh, take Vietnam for example -- had the "idealists" carried the day, many fewer lives would have been lost and our country wouldn't have to carry the burdensome shame of that war. I hope the "idealists" will speak more firmly and insistently about the rumors of torture, if only to prevent torture from recurring.

.<<..Mr. Cumaraswamy said the decision seemed to imply that the government of a sovereign State "could lease a piece of land from a neighbouring State, set up a detention camp, arrest suspects of terrorism from another jurisdiction, send them to this camp, [and then] deny them their legal rights - including principles of due process generally granted its own citizens - on grounds that the camp is physically outside its jurisdiction."

"By such conduct, the Government of the United States, in this case, will be seen as systematically evading application of domestic and international law so as to deny these suspects their legal rights," Mr. Cumaraswamy said, adding that the implication of the decision were "far-reaching" and could set a "dangerous precedent."

Calling on the US Government to comply with international human rights, refugee and humanitarian law, Mr. Cumaraswamy said the "war on terrorism cannot possibly be won by the denial of legal rights, including fundamental principles of due process of those merely suspected of terrorism.".....>>

http://www.un.org/apps/news/printnews.asp?nid=6433

It is very easy to criticize and moralize while not being responsible for obtaining the vital information that may help to prevent further terror attacks. Poor sleeping conditions and barely adequate food may work and may not. My own sleeping conditions all the time I served in the Soviet army in Afghanistan were barely adequate, but this did not make me to desert. Neither should the detained Islamic militants betray their ideology and their idols (bin Laden et al.) just for to get several more hours to sleep.
I have not yet seen here any reasonable proposal regarding information obtaining techniques that do not include physical impact on detainees.

I think there will always be times, Steissd, when an individual or a whole country will have to accept serious risk rather than use inhuman methods to avoid that risk. Far better that we all try to modify our own behaviors and policies in ways which will help us avoid provoking others into attacking us, thus making "necessary" the process of "getting information."

These are not only risks of the country; humane treatment of enemy may endanger lives of innocent civilians that will die if the terror attacks are not prevented. And families of these people will have then all the rights to ask, why detainees' rights for decent conditions were prefered to their family members' rights to remain alive.

So you suggest exactly what should be done with enemies?

Anything that can alleviate their defeat.

Anything unhuman you mean, then.

About "provoking". There is a way to make American image totally "non-provocative": to transform the USA into the Third World country, preferably the Islamic republic. I do not think that anyone in the USA would like such changes to happen.

Unhuman treatment is not necessary. If the enemy is ready to negotiate or to surrender, he should not be treated this way.

I have the picture from one of my newspapers. There was an article about Guantánamo and the prisoners.

Now I do have a question.
This man was lucky to be released from Guantánamo after more than 1 year in prison as a alleged terrorist. If he is released now, it means he is no terrorist. So all the months he was innocent in prison? Are there more like him?
Can he ask reparation for the damage he has suffered?

A society that allows torture does not have any "innocents". Torture to save innocents just puts the blood on the hands of the supposed "innocent". If they are willing to treat their percieved enemies in inhumane ways then any inhuman acts perpetrated against them can be justified in equally stupid minds of the enemy.

Dreamweaver, if the enemies shared the same mentality with you (well, in such a case they would not be enemies), humane treatment of those of them that got captured would suppose reciprocal humanity. But traditional approaches of the certain segments of the Third World that provide terrorists consider humanity being signs of weakness and cowardice. Their attitudes will not changed if they are being treated in humane ways. Humanity to enemies may turn being inhumanity toward your own compatriots.

by resorting to the techniques of the enemy we lower ourselves to their level. that is not what america is all about. the price of a free and democratic nation is the many guilty go free so that no innocent are convicted. we should always be willing to pay that price.

steissd
That logic is a double-edged sword. By that logic any inhumane treatment your enemies give you is justified "so as to avoid being inhuman to their compatriots". By that logic they should terrorize you, if they go easy on you there is no guarantee that you will reciprocate and they might open the door to inhumane treatment of them by you. By that logic your only justification for your acts is the possibility of danger. If that is the going rate for atrocity atrocity is cheap indeed.

Thank you Dys and Dreamweaver!! I fear we are setting ourselves up for plenty of trouble. I mean PLENTY -- including huge damage to our belief in our country.

People, when will you realize that it is not about criminality and justice? I never would advocate such a treatment being applied to a thief or drug dealer being brought to the police station. In spite of these people being scums, they are regular criminals and not enemies, so they deserve due process.
Afghan detainees are the enemies in the war that was imposed on the Western world by certain segment of the Third world. These people do not value your remorse and compassion. They want to kill or enslave you. Opportunistic treatment of them, without regard of complicated judicial procedure is a mere self-defense. The only alternative to defeating and intimidating them is surrender and subsequent slavery.

All men are created equal ....