Prisoners 'killed' at US Base

Surely, there were numerous episodes of prisoners being alone without guards. But when the facts contradict the objective (and the objective is to accuse the U.S. authorities in violating human rights) such facts are being deliberately overlooked. This was a standard technique of the Communist propaganda. The USSR does not exist any more since 1992, but the methods survived...

Agreed, steissd: because of this, some speak of Guantanamo as the American Gulag.

Lemme see, now. Some prisoners who may be Al Quaeda related are beaten to death in custody of American soldiers.... nope, no reason to suspect foul play on the soldier's part there...


If you're from the friggin' MOON, there's not.

Gulag? Are these people coerced to hard labor? I do not think so. This is an interrogation center for Afghan detainees. After interrogation and background check they are being released if they pose no security threat.

These prisoners are treated a hell of a lot better than our guys were in North Vietnam----Ask Senator John McCain or read his first book.

Check out one the pictures just displayed----- looks like two of them are living quite comfortably. When they are being moved they should be shackled and handcuffed----our guys have found out the hard way. Most of these guys are murdering thugs but some of you seem to have feelings of great sympathy for them. Why not take a trip down there and find out for yourselves instead of this constant sniveling about how badly these murderers are being treated.

If they were back in Afghanistan the conditions there are probably worse and I know the food is worse in Afghanistan.

We should never hold our country to the same standards as other countries which have behaved atrociously -- as for example the treatment of McCain and many others. Nor should we try to slide away from our own atrocious behavior when it happens -- and it did in Vietnam. The point isn't what others do. The point is: are we living up to our own standards, the standards we teach and talk about, and the standards we share with other countries in international treaties? Or do we just talk the talk but refuse to walk the walk?

Tartarin

Do you know for a fact we are NOT living up to those high standards you refer to?

Exactly, Tartarin. Before Donahue got erased from the air recently, he was in an argument about torture with someone I don't remember . The term he used to describe our willingness to suspend our rules - sometimes, was "situational ethics". It's like we're saying "We're the United States, good and just - until you commit an atrocity, then all bets are off"

Exactly Snood. Responsibility and accountability for others, not for us!!

OK, I do not say that the American interrogators employ special methods for information retrieval. I simply do not know, since I have never been present in Guantanamo when the detainees were questioned. But tell me please, which methods do you know that will make the Islamic terrorist to cooperate with the "infidel" interrogators? I know several techniques, but all of them imply causing intolerable pain to the person being questioned. Any creative ideas on how to obtain essential information without trespassing any of the laws and conventions? If these are not classified, please share your knowledge, ladies and gentlemen.

I would be very interested in the views on this subject of the mothers, fathers, children, widows and widowers of the people killed on 9/11. I could say with a reasonable amount of confidence that the terrorists who destroyed 3,000 innocent people were not concerned about the rights of the people that they killed, or the emotional torture that they caused the families of the victims.

No, I don't approve of torture. But I DO think that there are some circumstances where extroardinary means are required to prevent another 9/11.

Not intending to oversimplify the subject, but isn;t asking "how can we extract information without torture" sort of like "how can parents discipline without beating"? I mean, yes, it will be a challenge, but simple right and wrong demands that an effort be made.

That is exactly what I say. The detainees may have certain knowledge about the further plans of their organization and about its leaders whereabouts. Such a knowledge, if being obtained from them, may help to prevent the disasters similar to 09/11 in future. But this is obvious that the terrorists will not volunteer to provide the Army and law enforcers with such a knowledge.
These of the detainees that are members of Al-Qaeda knew what kind of organization they were joining and what were the objectives. Now the time has come for them to bear consequences of their free choice.

Steissd- Exactly!

Steissd and Phoenix

So, no rules? Electro-shock to genitals ok? Cigar to the retina? Hot poker up the anus? Breaking fingers and limbs? Perhaps, in other circumstances, raping children in front of the possible terrorist parent? Slicing off grandma's tits?

blatham- Of course not. Let's hope that we have not descended to the barbarity that has been the hallmark of some regimes. But there are certain psychological ways to "induce" people to talk, that does not involve physical torture!.

Rules should be applied if the opposite side respects these. Unfortunately, this is not the case. I fought in Afghanistan in 1982-86 (in the Soviet Army), and I know what treatment got the Soviet soldiers captured by mujahedeens. Death in the battle was preferrable.
These boys knew what kind of career they sought in Al-Qaeda. If this career does not attract them any more, they may quit and cooperate with interrogators. This will save the officers' time and the detainees' sufferings.
They felt happy when the American people burned alive in the WTC buildings. So, I really have no compassion to their possible sufferings in the detention center: they deserved these[/i][/color].

that's what's meant by "situational ethics". What good are morals if we only apply them as long as everyone else does?

That is a war, Snood. And the rules of this war are dictated by the enemy. OK, it is possible to adopt their rules of making war but toi combine these with the enormous American technological superiority. They do not understand humane treatment, they consider it being a sign of weakness and cowardice. They need being treated in the way they understand unequivocally; this is the only way to suppress terrorism.
Neither education, nor decent living standards for the "disadvantaged" will not help: majority of the terror leaders have academic degree and good incomes. It is possible to win only if they realize that the white gloves were taken off, the judicial games came to the end, and now they should anticipate harsh treatment. There is no other way to put end to terror than to demoralize and intimidate the potential terrorists[/b][/color].

Steissd

You are quite magnificent in your idiocy, I must tell you. I suppose that's a personal remark, but justification for torture puts you about two shelves below child molester. Israel, of course, is precisely the country to look for as regards successful strategies against terrorism, which is why they never suffer it. Good thinking.

Phoenix

You really ought to separate yourself in this discussion from the happy psychosis evidenced above.