Yossarian's Roost

@izzythepush,

I agree with this.

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@edgarblythe,

You spoke about public safety and violence towards individuals, not malice towards groups.

Those who advocate free speech want Trump to be able to start spreading his lies and hate. You know January 6th was a direct result of that, and now they want more of the same, all in the name of freedom of speech.

Freedom of speech absolution means no consequences for the rich and powerful while the weak get it in the neck.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Oh God, here goes another drunken speech.

I think Elon Musk is nuts about ‘Mars ', but he recently called Twitter et al the equivalent of colonial days town square. I think I used those same words with you years ago.

Nobody should be barred from listening to any opinion they voluntarily want to.

Satisfy that and you can do whatever else you want. A2K leans in the right way most of the time. You have the almighty 'ignore' button right at everybody’s fingertips to shut them up within in your own personal bubble.

But when you want to control other peoples' buttons, I have objections.

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@izzythepush,

I came in not recognizing the scope of the exchange. I never want the kind of free speech that Trump and his ilk spreads. On Twitter I block every poster who even hints at being like that.

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@edgarblythe,

That’s the idea Edgar. Soundproof bubbles for everyone.

Voluntary of course.

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@Leadfoot,

So opposition to hate speech you immediately label as drunken speech, deliberately belittling and infantalising those who oppose hate speech.

Your prejudices are clear, and the reason for that is white privilege, nobody is stirring up hatred against you. You may feel different if you were part of a minority group.

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@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

But when you want to control other peoples' buttons, I have objections.

Amnesty International are opposed to legitimising hate speech.

I'd say locking up people for their political beliefs is controlling other proples buttons.

You are on the side of dictators autocrats and right wing lynch mobs on this.

Make no mistake, that is the side you are on. Your fetishisation of free speech makes you an enemy of freedom and democracy.

Nothing should be taken to an absolute, that is where tyranny lies.

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@edgarblythe,

There is a brilliant Will Self on the Charlie Hebdo bombings and the fetishisation of free speech. I'll post it when I can get on the computer.

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@izzythepush,

I'm sorry I posted it on the wrong thread, here's a link.
https://able2know.org/topic/50511-1201#post-7223405

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@izzythepush,

I remember when that happened. Will check it out.

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Yes. That article says it well. And in some odd way I think it complements that other thread.

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@izzythepush,

Quote:

So opposition to hate speech you immediately label as drunken speech, deliberately belittling and infantalising those who oppose hate speech.

Your prejudices are clear, and the reason for that is white privilege, nobody is stirring up hatred against you. You may feel different if you were part of a minority group.

**** me, I was talking about my drunken self there Izzy.

I already admitted that I’d had a few after the movie you recommended.
No, it probably wasn’t in this thread but do you have to learn who a guy is all over again in every thread? I’d recognize that prickly bastard Izzy no matter where he shows up.

Minority? Do they get any smaller than one?

And if you want to lump me in with the 'Trumpsters', **** you.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

You are not in a minority, you're a white man and have white privilege, so do I.

I was saying that as far allowing hate speech to be protected as free speech you are in the same camp as Trump, terrorists and dictators.

Organisations like Amnesty International oppose giving hate speech such protection.

A good rule of thumb is that if the only justification someone has for saying something is free speech then it is no justification at all.

I never said you were like Trump, but in this matter you are on the same side of the debate as him.

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I truly don't believe in free speech. I tried to keep my kids from watching certain movies, such as Death Wish, in a time when their friends had VCRs and had already had them over to watch. Never sat through a single episode of the Fox News channel. As I said, I block far right conservatives on Twitter. I no longer communicate with certain far right relatives. Life is too short to be living in a garbage dump.

1 Reply

@Leadfoot,

Leadfoot wrote:

And we still keep electing the same assholes over and over.

What do you suppose is wrong with us?

Tribal thinking, and defending your favorite criminals got us here. So, now they’re *all* criminals and they’ve written laws to help them continue to get elected, to sell their votes, and make themselves millionaires while the majority of Americans struggle to get healthcare.

The world is burning and we still use fossil fuels. We are aware the world as we know it is actively ending before our eyes—and these corrupt geriatric ghouls have robbed our country and ended the world for money.

I don’t understand why they aren’t all in prison.

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@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

I truly don't believe in free speech. I tried to keep my kids from watching certain movies, such as Death Wish, in a time when their friends had VCRs and had already had them over to watch. Never sat through a single episode of the Fox News channel. As I said, I block far right conservatives on Twitter. I no longer communicate with certain far right relatives. Life is too short to be living in a garbage dump.

I feel like there’s a difference in what you described and being against free speech.

You’re not trying to get Fox News banned; you choose not to watch it.
You’re not trying to get your relatives arrested for their opinions; you choose not to listen.

I try to imagine people who disagree with my opinion actively attempting to silence my voice—and that is why I am pro-free speech.

I agree with the laws that draw a line in the sand when speech seeks to harm someone or incite harm.

1 Reply

@Lash,

Right. There is free speech and then there's free speech. Depends how you approach it.

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When I write that I have never watched Fox News channel even once, I meant the one that goes nonstop forever. There is the local channel that shows the Simpsons and I do on occasion tune in their news program. They are clever. They are all inclusive, featuring minority cast members and they have a segment called "What's Your Point?" where a leftist, such as Quanel X argues for progressive values against some right winger I couldn't name. Nobody interprets what is said afterward. I don't pay much attention to the newscasters on national topics. I mostly want the weather and a few local stories.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

We don't get Fox News anymore.

I did watch it when Al Megrahi was released from a Scottish prison.

It was brilliant, they were all so very angry about it but there was **** all they could do.

One of the best hour's TV I have seen for a long time.

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@edgarblythe,

The question is should hate speech, including the deliberate spreading of lies and disinformation, be protected as free speech.

I don't think it should.

2 Replies

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