1
   

Not As Important As Terri Schiavo But....

 
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:39 am
... and the Party invented the airplanes.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:39 am
Take it easy Joe.

Based on information we have now, the justifications given 2 years ago have been questioned.

How is it we have the information we have now, and how could we have gained that information 2 years ago?
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:41 am
Well, McG, that's exactly the point. Read what Powell said:

Quote:
We should constantly be reviewing our policies, constantly be looking at those sanctions to make sure that they are directed toward that purpose. That purpose is every bit as important now as it was ten years ago when we began it. And frankly they have worked. He has not developed any significant capability with respect to weapons of mass destruction. He is unable to project conventional power against his neighbors. So in effect, our policies have strengthened the security of the neighbors of Iraq...


That was in February 2001....
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:45 am
When did he last kick out the UN inspectors, 98? Please tell me why you trust the intelligence that Powell used to make that statement, yet when the very same agencies gave the US the justifications in 2003 you don't.
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:51 am
2001: Saddam has no WMD.
2003: Saddam has stockpiles of WMD, we know where they are.
2005: Saddam never had WMD.

One might say, the WMD issue was just used to scare the US people into a war. On the other hand, I might choose not to trust them at all, as they obviously seem to be utterly incompetent.

What intelligence should I therefore rely on? Oh, wait: maybe the UN inspectors who had actually been to Iraq until March 2003? Unlike the CIA, btw....
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 09:54 am
McGentrix wrote:
Take it easy Joe.

I'm the most easy-going guy in the world, McG, but thanks for the advice.

McGentrix wrote:
Based on information we have now, the justifications given 2 years ago have been questioned.

No, they haven't been questioned. They've been demolished.

McGentrix wrote:
How is it we have the information we have now, and how could we have gained that information 2 years ago?

We had the information two years ago. The administration simply failed to pay any attention to it.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 10:12 am
How do you figure Joe? If they had it, surely someone like Kerry would have stood up in Congress and said "HEY! LOOK AT THIS!"
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 11:29 am
Even Death Does Not Quiet Harsh Political Fight

By CARL HULSE and DAVID D. KIRKPATRICK

Published: April 1, 2005

WASHINGTON, March 31 - The political battle over Terri Schiavo erupted anew on Thursday as conservatives portrayed her death as the result of an unaccountable judiciary and Representative Tom DeLay, the House majority leader, threatened retribution against the judges who refused to intercede in the case.

"The time will come for the men responsible for this to answer for their behavior, but not today," said Mr. DeLay, who was instrumental in pushing emergency legislation that gave the federal courts jurisdiction over Ms. Schiavo's care, only to see them decline to order her feeding tube restored. Saying that the courts "thumbed their nose at Congress and the president," Mr. DeLay, of Texas, suggested Congress was exploring responses and declined to rule out the possibility of Congressional impeachment of the judges involved.


http://www.nytimes.com/2005/04/01/politics/01pols.html?th&emc=th

It would appear that the republicans are all for an independent judiciary as long as they agree with it's rulings.
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panzade
 
  1  
Reply Fri 1 Apr, 2005 11:47 am
The reason it's not front and center is because it's old news. Even the neocons admitted that the intelligence community didn't know a WMD from an industrial barrel.
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:58 am
McGentrix wrote:
How do you figure Joe? If they had it, surely someone like Kerry would have stood up in Congress and said "HEY! LOOK AT THIS!"

There were some brave souls in congress that did say: "hey, look at this!" That Kerry wasn't one of those brave souls says a great deal about Kerry but not a lot about the evidence.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 2 Apr, 2005 09:53 pm
So obviously almost every member of Congress was "in on it" then?
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joefromchicago
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 09:35 am
McGentrix wrote:
So obviously almost every member of Congress was "in on it" then?

Quite the contrary: almost every member of congress was "out of it."
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 09:59 am
The admin. sucessfully used fear, fear of 9/11 and of WMD, to make it politically tough for any senator or Rep to oppose his war plans, and there were enough votes to make sure the thing passed even if a lot of people did object.

By painting the anti-war crowd as obstructionists and cowards, the admin. successfully bamboozled the country into going along with their lies...

Cycloptichorn
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 11:23 am
But you are saying that Many in Congress knew there were no WMD's. What were they afraid of? It should have been super easy just to point out the obvious holes in the intelligence, right?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 11:35 am
What were they afraid of? Being voted out of office. Simple as that. Riding on the fear of 9/11, anyone who was against the pres' wishes was demonized by both parties and the media.

Contrast that to the current situation, and you'll see just how badly the Bush admin. mis-stepped in attacking Iraq....

Cycloptichorn
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au1929
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 03:03 pm
The commission blamed everyone but the true culprits. The president and his band of merry men.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 05:19 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
What were they afraid of? Being voted out of office. Simple as that. Riding on the fear of 9/11, anyone who was against the pres' wishes was demonized by both parties and the media.

Contrast that to the current situation, and you'll see just how badly the Bush admin. mis-stepped in attacking Iraq....

Cycloptichorn


OR, follow me on this... it could have been they agreed with the intelligence and believed, like the president did, that Iraq had WMD's and represented a threat to US interests.

Is that really such a stretch that you can't believe it?
0 Replies
 
nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 05:36 pm
McGentrix wrote:
OR, follow me on this... it could have been they agreed with the intelligence and believed, like the president did, that Iraq had WMD's and represented a threat to US interests.

Is that really such a stretch that you can't believe it?

No, I can easily believe a whole flood of Democratic Congressmen choosing to believe their President rather than heeding what allied countries were warning about.

And Cyclo is also right: if they had done the opposite, they would have been vilified. The "French connection" was played out enough already in these last elections as it was.
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 05:41 pm
What were they warning about? It certainly wasn't that Saddam did not have any WMD's. Most were simply afraid how a uni-lateral war on terror might effect them.

There also were no countries that did not have their own self-interest as motivation to opposing the war in Iraq.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Mon 4 Apr, 2005 05:46 pm
au1929 wrote:
The commission blamed everyone but the true culprits. The president and his band of merry men.

TNR's Iraq'd, on 10 March, reminded us:

Quote:
THE BACK BURNER: Last July, the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence released a 511-page report into how the intelligence community erroneously assessed Saddam Hussein's nonexistent weapons of mass production programs and relationship to Al Qaeda. However, it wasn't complete. Committee members opted to defer inquiry into the politically hazardous questions of how accurately the Bush administration represented the intelligence it possessed on Iraq to the Congress and the public and how appropriately administration policymakers influenced the assessment and presentation of intelligence products within the government until after the November election. Liberals especially have been waiting with bated breath ever since.

Today, Pat Roberts, the Senate intelligence committee chairman, told everyone not to bother. "It's basically on the back burner," Roberts said after a speech on intelligence reform at the Woodrow Wilson Center. "The bottom line is that [the administration] believed the intelligence, and the intelligence was wrong." Some might dispute that characterization, as former CIA Director George Tenet did last year when he told the Senate Armed Services Committee--on which Roberts also serves--that "when I believed that somebody was misconstruing intelligence, I said something about it."

Besides, Roberts added, the "WMD Commission in March will lay it all out." That would be the commission President Bush appointed last February to deflect political heat on the Iraq intelligence debacle--and which doesn't look at policymakers' role in either intelligence production or public representation. [..]
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