0
   

What the diserters (weak of heart) don't understand.

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 10:44 pm
Watchman writes
Quote:
This is why I don't join the army. I couldn't feel justified in being sent to a war in Iraq, but I would have to if I were a soldier. I'm considering joining a branch of the reserves that only gets called up if the country is invaded though. A cause much easier to believe in.


I think you should be pretty careful here. I can't think of any branch of the service, National Guard, Reserves, or Active Duty, in which you would be exempt from deployment overseas and that includes the Coast Guard. If you have moral reservations about such deployment, best to find a way to serve that does not involve joining the military at all.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 11:04 pm
You beat me to it Fox. I was going to tell him the same thing. I have several friends who are in the Guard and one of them has been sent to Bosnia on a UN peacekeeping mission and the other has just returned from Afghanistan on an OBL hunting trip for the last several months. In this day and age, everyone is being sent everywhere not just to Afghanistan or Iraq.

I would suggest if you want to do something that involves being in the govt and protecting the US that you might want to look at joining either DHS or some other govt agency. Either way, it is good to see that there are still people besides my crazy self that want to serve.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 11:18 pm
Baldimo writes
Quote:
Either way, it is good to see that there are still people besides my crazy self that want to serve.


Amen to that my friend. Amen.
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 02:05 am
Foxfyre wrote:
I think you should be pretty careful here. I can't think of any branch of the service, National Guard, Reserves, or Active Duty, in which you would be exempt from deployment overseas and that includes the Coast Guard. If you have moral reservations about such deployment, best to find a way to serve that does not involve joining the military at all.


Thanks for the tip... makes me a bit more cautious about the idea. It's not that I think it's immoral necessarily to serve somewhere else, it's just that once I join the choice is out of my hands on whether it's moral or not. I'd hate to be put in that situation.

Baldimo wrote:
I would suggest if you want to do something that involves being in the govt and protecting the US that you might want to look at joining either DHS or some other govt agency.


Or even the police.

Quote:
Either way, it is good to see that there are still people besides my crazy self that want to serve.


I want to help make the world a better place and help people, just got to be a bit careful that that's what I'd be doing. The fact that I consider myself a pacifist makes me think I'd be good to have in the military. I think anyone whose job it is to take lives should love life. Makes them less likely to make mistakes.

If I joined the military though my family would probably disown me. They hate the military, I don't think they see the difference between military and war.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 08:01 am
Oh Sergeant I'm a draftee and I've just arrived in camp.
I've come to wear the uniform and join the martial tramp.
And I want to do my duty, but one thing I do implore
You must give me lessons, sergeant, for I've never killed before.

To do my job obediently is my only desire.
To learn my weapon thoroughly and how to aim and fire.
To learn to kill the enemy and then to slaughter more,
I'll need instruction, sergeant, for I've never killed before.

Now there are several lessons that I haven't mastered yet.
I haven't got the hang of how to use the bayonet.
If he doesn't die at once am I to stick him with it more?
Oh, I hope you will be patient, for I've never killed before.

Oh, there are rumors in the camp about our enemy.
They say that when you see him he looks just like you and me.
But you deny it, Sergeant, and you are a man of war,
So you must give me lessons, for I've never killed before.

The hand grenade is something that I just don't understand.
You've got to throw it quickly or you're apt to lose your hand.
Does it blow a man to pieces with it's wicked, muffled roar?
Oh, I've got so much to learn because I've never killed before.

Oh, I want to thank you, Sergeant, for the help you've been to me.
For you've taught me how to slaughter and to hate the enemy.
And I know that I'll be ready when they march me off to war,
And I know that it won't matter that I've never killed before.
And I know that it won't matter that I've never killed before.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Thu 7 Apr, 2005 04:51 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Oh Sergeant I'm a draftee and I've just arrived in camp.
I've come to wear the uniform and join the martial tramp.
And I want to do my duty, but one thing I do implore
You must give me lessons, sergeant, for I've never killed before.

To do my job obediently is my only desire.
To learn my weapon thoroughly and how to aim and fire.
To learn to kill the enemy and then to slaughter more,
I'll need instruction, sergeant, for I've never killed before.

Now there are several lessons that I haven't mastered yet.
I haven't got the hang of how to use the bayonet.
If he doesn't die at once am I to stick him with it more?
Oh, I hope you will be patient, for I've never killed before.

Oh, there are rumors in the camp about our enemy.
They say that when you see him he looks just like you and me.
But you deny it, Sergeant, and you are a man of war,
So you must give me lessons, for I've never killed before.

The hand grenade is something that I just don't understand.
You've got to throw it quickly or you're apt to lose your hand.
Does it blow a man to pieces with it's wicked, muffled roar?
Oh, I've got so much to learn because I've never killed before.

Oh, I want to thank you, Sergeant, for the help you've been to me.
For you've taught me how to slaughter and to hate the enemy.
And I know that I'll be ready when they march me off to war,
And I know that it won't matter that I've never killed before.
And I know that it won't matter that I've never killed before.


The Soldier's Creed



I am an American Soldier.

I am a Warrior and a member of a team. I serve the people of the United States and live the Army Values.

I will always place the mission first.

I will never accept defeat.

I will never quit.

I will never leave a fallen comrade.

I am disciplined, physically and mentally tough, trained and proficient in my warrior tasks and drills. I always maintain my arms, my equipment and myself.

I am an expert and I am a professional.

I stand ready to deploy, engage, and destroy the enemies of the United States of America in close combat.

I am a guardian of freedom and the American way of life.

I am an American Soldier
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2005 01:29 pm
dyslexia wrote:
Oh Sergeant I'm a draftee


There isn't currently conscription...
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Apr, 2005 01:40 pm
I'm older than you are.
0 Replies
 
Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 04:37 pm
Diserters
dyslexia wrote:
I'm older than you are.


Yep, Dys. These kids haven't any idea about seeing your neighbors kid getting a letter for the Draft Board starting out "You have been selected by your friends nad neighbors....." Nor have they any idea of spending time dodging lead in a war that people at home are protesting.

On topic: IMHO, if a person clains that he or she is against killing for moral reasons, they can claim Consciensious Objecter (CO) status and still serve, without carrying a weapon. My medic was a CO and earned the Silver Star after I left Vietnam in late 1968. I know another that served in WWII that was what was called a hospital orderly. Both served honorably and followed their belliefs. However, a person has to let the recruiter know at time of inlistment, if he's not AWOL. But that's another topic.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 05:17 pm
Re: Diserters
Wiyaka wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I'm older than you are.


Yep, Dys. These kids haven't any idea about seeing your neighbors kid getting a letter for the Draft Board starting out "You have been selected by your friends nad neighbors....." Nor have they any idea of spending time dodging lead in a war that people at home areprotesting.


I guess you haven't been watching the news in the last few years then have you? Your right we know nothing about protests and teachers having children in class writting protest letters. It just so happens that people aren't sitting by this time and letting the protestors get by with their bull$hit. I bet you that if some protestors tried that crap these days that they tried then, that other people watching would give them a lesson in respect to soldiers.

Quote:
On topic: IMHO, if a person clains that he or she is against killing for moral reasons, they can claim Consciensious Objecter (CO) status and still serve, without carrying a weapon. My medic was a CO and earned the Silver Star after I left Vietnam in late 1968. I know another that served in WWII that was what was called a hospital orderly. Both served honorably and followed their belliefs. However, a person has to let the recruiter know at time of inlistment, if he's not AWOL. But that's another topic.


I don't get what your trying to say about recruiters and people being AWOL?

I would still like to know what some of you think about the bravery of SFC. Paul Smith? People are still protecting the chickens and ignoring the true heros.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 05:52 pm
Baldimo I'm pretty sure this will fly right under your head but I was one of them "protesters" when under fire and when I got home. You can take your true heros and bury them in John Waynes tomb for all I care. I only heros I ever saw were the corpsmen.
0 Replies
 
mysteryman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 05:54 pm
Why are we hero's?
We just did our jobs,and tried to keep people alive.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 06:07 pm
mysteryman wrote:
Why are we hero's?
We just did our jobs,and tried to keep people alive.


That is what makes you a hero. You didn't think, you did your job, it is more then can said for those that left. Your not a superhero, but a regular joe doing things others can't fathom.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 06:16 pm
ben there, done that Baldimo and I can only conclude that you are the one that can't fathom.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 07:08 pm
dyslexia wrote:
ben there, done that Baldimo and I can only conclude that you are the one that can't fathom.


Why are you turning this personal against me?
0 Replies
 
goodfielder
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 07:11 pm
Quote:
I bet you that if some protestors tried that crap these days that they tried then, that other people watching would give them a lesson in respect to soldiers.


This is just one person's perspective on this point. Back then - during the anti-Vietnam War demonstrations, ordinary people and indeed soldiers on leave, did attack demonstrators. It wasn't eddifying but it happened. I saw it. But the incidents I saw were relatively minor and as a result of heat on both sides. I don't recall what might be called "cold-blooded" incidents, where people were attacked outside of the demonstration situation.
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 07:41 pm
Re: Diserters
Wiyaka wrote:
dyslexia wrote:
I'm older than you are.


Yep, Dys. These kids haven't any idea about seeing your neighbors kid getting a letter for the Draft Board starting out "You have been selected by your friends nad neighbors....." Nor have they any idea of spending time dodging lead in a war that people at home are protesting.


I was born during the 1980s. I haven't even been of legal age to join the military for very long, so yeah, I'm far too young to remember conscription. My father isn't though, he was conscripted.

I've said before that I'm against conscription. I can't imagine anything more horrible than being told, you must fight for us or we'll do terrible things to you. Doesn't change the reality of the matter that conscription no longer exists, so a person who joins the military does it deliberately.

Edit: Okay, I can imagine things worse than that. I'd just rather not.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 11 Apr, 2005 07:53 pm
fair enough watchermaker, btw I wasn't drafted, I enlisted.
0 Replies
 
watchmakers guidedog
 
  1  
Reply Wed 13 Apr, 2005 07:45 am
dyslexia wrote:
fair enough watchermaker, btw I wasn't drafted, I enlisted.


Which means that you made the decision to be there, making you responsible for your presence in the military and the consequences of your choice. If you enlist you're promising to serve your country as a soldier. Breaking this promise can put peoples lives into risk and is also forswearing an oath.

(Note: I'm not saying that you've done any of the above, just using your situation as an example for the actual discussion.)

Unless the military lies to you about the terms of your service or suddenly changes them on you, (two things I would strongly disagree with), you should live up to your oaths as a soldier.
0 Replies
 
Wiyaka
 
  1  
Reply Thu 14 Apr, 2005 12:29 pm
Dys, I enlisted too. Wasn't doing more than I had to to do my job and must have done it well, since I'm here. All of the trinkets won't bring back those that died or erase the pain of experiencing what we did.

If anyone's interested, check out my topic on "military experts" that were never in service. It gives some of my military background. Movies and books don't depict the horrors of war strongly enough to even come close to the reality of mans inhumanity towards others.

Baldimo, unless you've been there, you don't or can't understand. I'm one of the protesters that you dislike. I just do it quietly by talking to people and writing letters to my comgressmen. I have family in the military right now and I support them, just now this war.

If you don't know abouyt the problems of recruiters going AWOL now, you should do your homework. I'm not going to waste my time leading you to the sources, but trust me. There are recruiters that are AWOL. Sort of surprised me to find out, but I can understand it. Check around the net and you'll eventually find out that I'm right.
0 Replies
 
 

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