What the diserters (weak of heart) don't understand.

See, Baldimo: whenever you have structures where members think of themselves as soldiers, and maybe a chain of command, McG's statement would be true.

Or wouldn't it?

It's not a soldiers job to decide if what he is doing is "right" or not. A soldier is not an individual. A soldier is part of a team and every team member has to be able to rely on every other team member.

Was an example, but of course there are better analogies, right:

Germany was, after WWI, allowed to have an army of no more than 100,000 men, with an additional 15,000 men in the navy.

Years later, 18,2 million men had been conscripted in the Wehrmacht, they had been sent to invade numerous European countries, and 5.3 million had died.

Now take McG's statement:

Quote:

It's not a soldiers job to decide if what he is doing is "right" or not. A soldier is not an individual. A soldier is part of a team and every team member has to be able to rely on every other team member.

You'd have to admit that the German soldiers did nothing wrong. Right?

See, Baldimo? Exactly my point!

Funny, Baldimo... I always thought Hitler's "Mein Kampf" was published years before Germany actually started the war described there, and before Jews were killed like written there, and I always thought it had been mandatory for all Germans to read the book....

I must admit I don't know a lot about what is going on in the 'inner circle' of the White House, but I'm glad to hear from you that you do know.

Right, we probably have more access to a wider range of media nowadays. Nevertheless, most people would probably choose to not know. Take yourself. What are you reading/listening to/watching on average? Totally unbiased? Everything you can get hold of?

And if, say, a soldier would do this, and come to the conclusion that his country is fighting an unjust war: would he be a chicken whatsoever the circumstances?

I'm not talking about your country, your war and your soldiers now, mind you.

Interesting indeed!

Are you relieved it's Afghanistan and not Iraq?

Have you been to the region, or to any other country yet, or would that be the first time?

And did you really join because of 9/11? That would be an .... impressive thing to do!

You're a hero in my book Baldimo.

Didn't do it to be a hero, I did mainly so that those people serving could come home to their families. Someone had to take their places, plus I see as a good way of putting my money where my mouth was. I didn't join when was younger because I didn't like who was in charge of the military.

old europe wrote:

Right, we probably have more access to a wider range of media nowadays. Nevertheless, most people would probably choose to not know. Take yourself. What are you reading/listening to/watching on average? Totally unbiased? Everything you can get hold of?

And if, say, a soldier would do this, and come to the conclusion that his country is fighting an unjust war: would he be a chicken whatsoever the circumstances?

I'm not talking about your country, your war and your soldiers now, mind you.

What you ask hits close to home. I am a soldier serving in the US Army so it is my Army it is my country and it is a soldier in my military. I have made the same commitment he was supposed to abide by and he failed to do so.

I honestly don't think it had anything to do with his thinking about the morality of the war, I think he was all hot for battle when he joined and then when it came to put his money where his mouth was, he got scared. It's one thing to be scared about war, I know I am, but it is another thing to leave and run. If your not a little scared about war, then you scare me. I would have much more respect for someone that admitted they weren't ready then to leave. That is at least honorable.

Baldimo wrote:

old europe wrote:

Right, we probably have more access to a wider range of media nowadays. Nevertheless, most people would probably choose to not know. Take yourself. What are you reading/listening to/watching on average? Totally unbiased? Everything you can get hold of?

And if, say, a soldier would do this, and come to the conclusion that his country is fighting an unjust war: would he be a chicken whatsoever the circumstances?

I'm not talking about your country, your war and your soldiers now, mind you.

What you ask hits close to home. I am a soldier serving in the US Army so it is my Army it is my country and it is a soldier in my military. I have made the same commitment he was supposed to abide by and he failed to do so.

I honestly don't think it had anything to do with his thinking about the morality of the war, I think he was all hot for battle when he joined and then when it came to put his money where his mouth was, he got scared. It's one thing to be scared about war, I know I am, but it is another thing to leave and run. If your not a little scared about war, then you scare me. I would have much more respect for someone that admitted they weren't ready then to leave. That is at least honorable.

First of all Baldimo,let me tell you to keep your head and your ass down.
I served in both Afghanistan AND Iraq with the marines.
I was a navy corpsman (medic),and I was wounded in Iraq and medically retired after 25 years.

First off,I was scared to death the whole time I was in Iraq and afghanistan.
Its human nature to be scared,and anyone that isnt is a danger to his whole unit.
I think that the men that have deserted were scared.They joined for the "glory",and found out that there is no glory in warfare.Its fear,sweat,blood,death,panic,confusion,and revulsion.
Those men couldnt admit to themselves that they were scared.

They might have opposed the war in Iraq,but once they raised their right hand and took the oath,they were committed.
If I had my way,every one of them would face a firing squad for desertion.
They have let down their country,they let down the service,and worst of all,they let down their buddies in their units.
IMHO,that is unforgiveable.
You dont ever want to let your buddies down,thats why so many men go "above and beyond" when it comes to saving their friends and protecting their buddies.