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Is the "culture of life" a culture of hypocrisy?

 
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 11:48 am
DrewDad,

Why are you getting so defensive? I merely pointed out that everybody is hypocritical. I am sometimes too. It is really really hard to not be hypocritical at all.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 11:51 am
LOL. Next you'll be calling me "hysterical."
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 11:51 am
Why are you so afraid to address the specifics of my questions?
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 11:52 am
See how I did that? Snuck that little emotive word in there? Tricky, tricky....
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 12:07 pm
What do you want me to answer? Why did Bush come rushing back to Washington for Terri but not after the tsunami?

Maybe he cares more about Terri then the Tsunami victims. Maybe he wasn't enjoying his vacation anyway and was looking for just such a reason to come home and make a grand entrance. I'm not really sure. but my guess would be that maybe he felt he could get more accomplished actually being there with a divisive issue like Terri where as he figured something like the Tsunami, in which everybody felt it was a catastrophe, could be just as easily handled, if not faster, over the phone.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 01:30 pm
jpinMilwaukee wrote:
What do you want me to answer? Why did Bush come rushing back to Washington for Terri but not after the tsunami?


jp, it seems that "mainstream america" knows why he did that... to either payback and satisfy or increase his support from fundamentalist extremists. a/k/a/ P -O -L -I -T - I - C - S.

the guy simply cannot have it both ways;

extol the "culture of life" etc. and mock an inmate to be executed; "pleeeese, don't kill me"

extol the "culture of life" etc. and and sign a bill that gives doctors the last say, over the will of the family, to pull the plug on a patient.

extol the "culture of life" etc. and seek every possible way to limit the availability of health care to all citizens, including teri schiavo, who's reported $80,000 per month medical costs are paid by medicaid.

et cetera...
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Mar, 2005 01:38 pm
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
candidone1 wrote:
You're a complete and utter waste of my time....


This says all about you that we need to know.


Considering your response earlier on, you're in no position to be laying that kind of judgement on me.
That's my point .
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 12:39 am
DrewDad wrote:
Finn,

I (personally) do not have a partisan axe to grind. I know where I stand. I've stated my views numerous times on other threads.

I have highlighted what seem to me to be contradictions in the President's (and other politicians') stance on the preservation of life.

I have asked if anyone can explain to me the reasoning behind these attitudes, because I, frankly, am baffled.

Attempting to understand an opposing viewpoint is hardly an "untargeted rant."

If you do not wish to participate in the conversation, or are unable to participate in a civil manner, then feel free to ignore the thread.


DrewDad

Please forgive my incredulity.

I read what you write , and I do do not see the innocence of which you profess. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps not.

Please spare me your sermon on civility, I have met you on other threads. If you are not prepared to respond when called upon then feel free to ignore my postings.
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Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 12:58 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
...extol the "culture of life" etc. and and sign a bill that gives doctors the last say, over the will of the family, to pull the plug on a patient.

I ran into this type of law in New York when a close relative of mine died, although the matter never actually reached this extreme point. The law is based on the concept of "futile care." In general I do not agree with this much, although you can run into some nightmare scenarios that aren't at all simple to decide. My point, though, is that this is hardly unique to Texas. This is something that doctors' organizations have decided and are now, I believe, seeing made into law across the country. This is not a unique or unusual law by any means.
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Brandy
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 01:21 am
It seems to me that we do not want our doctors to be in the business of killing patients. I think it is fine if the doctor explains the probable prognosis to the family. But the doctor should not have the power or duty or obligation to decide when the plug will be pulled. If we don't get anything else out of this horrible thing that is happening I hope the states will come up with some reasonable laws regarding feeding tubes and whether these are life support in the same way that respirators are life support. We all don't need respirators. But we all need food and water.
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DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 07:53 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Finn,

I (personally) do not have a partisan axe to grind. I know where I stand. I've stated my views numerous times on other threads.

I have highlighted what seem to me to be contradictions in the President's (and other politicians') stance on the preservation of life.

I have asked if anyone can explain to me the reasoning behind these attitudes, because I, frankly, am baffled.

Attempting to understand an opposing viewpoint is hardly an "untargeted rant."

If you do not wish to participate in the conversation, or are unable to participate in a civil manner, then feel free to ignore the thread.


DrewDad

Please forgive my incredulity.

I read what you write , and I do do not see the innocence of which you profess. Perhaps I am wrong, perhaps not.

Please spare me your sermon on civility, I have met you on other threads. If you are not prepared to respond when called upon then feel free to ignore my postings.

As for my presence on other threads, feel free to go back and read them in context. I think you will find that I rarely, if ever, jump into a thread with the same kind of vitriole you displayed here.

As for this thread, I did not profess "innocence;" I asserted that I am open to better understanding the conservative and/or right-to-life mindset.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Mar, 2005 07:01 pm
the shindlers are selling their "donators" mailing list to conservative direct mail companies and others.

hypocrisy ?

case closed
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Brandy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2005 12:03 am
What source do you have you can trust for that donttread? How can you be so sure it is correct considering all the false data floating around all over the place? How can you know the motives of parents who love their child. What would you consider appropriate to save your child if you believed she was being murdered? Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe.
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 30 Mar, 2005 02:15 am
Brandy wrote:
What source do you have you can trust for that donttread? How can you be so sure it is correct considering all the false data floating around all over the place? How can you know the motives of parents who love their child. What would you consider appropriate to save your child if you believed she was being murdered? Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe.


i've been following your posts brandi. welcome to a2k. it's not all yelling and in my relatively short time here, i've come to like and admire most of the folks here on both sides of the political fence. give it time and i'm sure you will too. Very Happy

now to the wranglin'...

it's been all over the news. heard it's been getting blogged a lot as well, but i haven't read them yet. since it's not been denied and in fact defended by the shindler's supporters, i have to take it as being accurate. but i'm always open to new info.

brandi states; "Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe."

that's a fair statement. i am in full sympathy with the emotions of the shindlers. they love their daughter and don't want to let her go. but, what must be considered is terri's wishes. and it has been determined that she did not wish to simply exist in a state such as the one that has befallen her. i don't find that too hard to understand.

just today, i learned of a similar case from 1991. christina bussalacchi. i saw video footage that at first i thought was terri schiavo. it was like an exact copy.

i haven't googled it yet, but the interview with her father and the videos (including protesters with "starvation = murder" ) was really quite good.

frankly brandi, i don't doubt the shindlers motives, though i think it is a little selfish, but i am positive that they have been and continue to be used by others to push an agenda.

and that's just not right.
0 Replies
 
Brandy
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 05:40 am
I think my parents love me enough they would do exactly what the Schindlers are doing. I know there is no way I wouldn't be doing everything in my power to save my child under the same circumstances and I would enlist the support and help and funding from anybody available who would provide it. I am far more suspicious of the motives of those who would tell the jumper to jump or who accept without question all the stuff used to say Terri Schiavo should be killed.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 06:22 am
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Brandy wrote:
What source do you have you can trust for that donttread? How can you be so sure it is correct considering all the false data floating around all over the place? How can you know the motives of parents who love their child. What would you consider appropriate to save your child if you believed she was being murdered? Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe.
...now to the wranglin'...

it's been all over the news. heard it's been getting blogged a lot as well, but i haven't read them yet. since it's not been denied and in fact defended by the shindler's supporters, i have to take it as being accurate. but i'm always open to new info.

brandi states; "Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe."

that's a fair statement. i am in full sympathy with the emotions of the shindlers. they love their daughter and don't want to let her go. but, what must be considered is terri's wishes. and it has been determined that she did not wish to simply exist in a state such as the one that has befallen her. i don't find that too hard to understand.

just today, i learned of a similar case from 1991. christina bussalacchi. i saw video footage that at first i thought was terri schiavo. it was like an exact copy.

i haven't googled it yet, but the interview with her father and the videos (including protesters with "starvation = murder" ) was really quite good.

frankly brandi, i don't doubt the shindlers motives, though i think it is a little selfish, but i am positive that they have been and continue to be used by others to push an agenda.

and that's just not right.

You just claimed that the existence of the mailing list was such strong existence of hypocrisy that the case was "closed." You were asked to demonstrate the veracity of your assertion. We're still waiting.
0 Replies
 
old europe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 06:56 am
re title of this thread:

Even though the focus seems to be the Schiavo case at the moment, Bush's "culture of life" is a somewhat wider take. It's promoting that human life has to be saved in any case, be it stem cell research, abortions, or removing life support from PVS patients.

Nevertheless, at the same time he sends soldiers to die in an unnecessary war (not speaking of the civilians that have died in that conflict) and defends the death penalty (having more than 150 inmates executed is quite telling).

That's what I would call Hypocrisy.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 10:44 am
<Channeling Mike Myer, channeling the Coffee Lady>

Question: How does the "culture of life" fit with opposing universal health care?

Discuss amongst yourselves....
0 Replies
 
DontTreadOnMe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 6 Apr, 2005 11:52 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Brandy wrote:
What source do you have you can trust for that donttread? How can you be so sure it is correct considering all the false data floating around all over the place?..... Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe.


it's been all over the news. heard it's been getting blogged a lot as well, but i haven't read them yet. since it's not been denied and in fact defended by the shindler's supporters, i have to take it as being accurate. but i'm always open to new info.

brandi states; "Its so easy to judge using information we cant prove but want to believe." ...frankly brandi, i don't doubt the shindlers motives, though i think it is a little selfish, but i am positive that they have been and continue to be used by others to push an agenda.

and that's just not right.


You just claimed that the existence of the mailing list was such strong existence of hypocrisy that the case was "closed." You were asked to demonstrate the veracity of your assertion. We're still waiting.


okay brandon. you could have looked it up yourself, but..

outsidethebeltway

cnn

nytimes
0 Replies
 
Anonymouse
 
  1  
Reply Fri 8 Apr, 2005 07:54 pm
DrewDad wrote:

Um... not quite. It is part of the social contract. If you don't want to pay taxes, then by all means lobby for your position, run for elected office, write letters to the editor, partake in non-violent protest, etc.

However, you may believe what you wish to believe. I do not intend to argue this point with you further.


I disagree. This assumes that everyone agress to the "social contract". Those, for example, that do not want the governments services have no choice, thus it is coercive, hence it is theft. The social contract is basically a myth. No State has ever come into existence via this idealistic peaceful means. But all states have come to exist through violence. If you believe in this mythical social contract - which in the U.S. during the formation of the Constitution did not even reflect the views of the majority of people - you should explain how when Rhode Island did not want to ratify the Constitution it was threatened with invasions and blockades should it refuse to ratify it. There goes the myth of the social contract.
0 Replies
 
 

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