13
   

Ending Qualified Immunity for Cops

 
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2020 06:39 am
@engineer,
Do other countries have this enmity between ‘minorities’ and cops, or is this a particularly American problem?

I never knew it was this widespread.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2020 06:46 am
@Lash,
Based on the world wide protests we've seen my guess is it is pretty widespread. I think what is different in the US is the paramilitary approach of the police.
Lash
 
  3  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2020 12:53 pm
@engineer,
Thanks. Now, I’m wondering about police unions and other countries’ responses to questionable cop shootings and how if they just transfer cops with a record of questionable shootings to other areas.

I’ll see if I can find any data.
RABEL222
 
  1  
Reply Fri 26 Jun, 2020 02:01 pm
@Lash,
Go to the conservative supreme .court site. They have given cops the right to shoot anyone they want to for whatever reason they see fit.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 29 Jun, 2020 02:27 pm
Why Police Cannot (and Will Not) Protect Our Rights
snippet:
Quote:
Very little of what governments do today have anything to do with protecting citizens. Instead, governments impose numerous burdens upon others by telling them what they can eat, what they can say, what plants are permissible to ingest and which are not, and how we are to interact with others when we engage in economic exchange and production. In earlier days, before the Progressive Era brought about a sea change in how Americans view government and how governments interact with citizens, criminal law revolved around the legal doctrine of malum in se, which means that an illegal act, such as murder, is wrong in itself. Today, the vast number of “crimes” that land people in prison are based upon the legal doctrine of malum prohibitum, which says an act such as smoking marijuana is wrong only because a governing body says it is wrong.


Video of Nurse Wubbels getting arrested



0 Replies
 
vikorr
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 12:55 am
@Lash,
It probably isn't a problem in the same way it is in America. If the minority is rich there certainly wouldn't be a problem. Usually such issues relates to poverty, and the crime that comes with poverty, and therefore the over-representation in the justice system of the minority. However in the US there seems to two things that make it worse:
- a larger prison system to most countries
- way more guns in public (I mean during police intercepts)
- way more home owners prepared to shoot at police executing search warrants (so it seems)
- way more police shooting citizens (whether criminal or not). Wikipedia puts the US at the top of the shootings per capita for western nations.

Presumably, that extra level of shootings is heavily weighted towards the black community (I haven't checked that far, as I've been answering a slightly different question)

These feelings of localised police injustice are compounded by social media <which may not talk about local events at all>, and also by the media whose headlines only say 'police', rather than <jurisdiction location> police...and by so doing paints all police forces. In other words, in a way all police forces are now grouped as one , no matter their record, training, improvements, etc. Having a bigger pool to choose from, in an arena often enough dealing in required split second decision making (or things going for good to bad in a split second)...you now have the ability to paint a series of 'issues' as belonging to one police force, even if that is not at all the case. So people everywhere start feeling more uncertain of their police, and more aggrieved of anything that goes wrong.

Outside of that issue - my view is we have moved a long way from a resilient, self reliant society, towards a victim based society - where there are ever more mental 'disorders' discovered, every more reasons why people can't help themselves, with the government trying to solve ever increasingly minor problems for people, where conflict management skills are diminishing, criticism (even constructive) is frowned on...etc...etc...etc... ie. This compounds the above.

At the same time government teaches individual rights of what other people, police, etc can't do....without teaching the obligation the individual has back to the community (respect, contribution, to participate in problem solving - particularly of their own problems, etc). This too compounds the problem (and is part of what allows people to view themselves as victims. ie "You can't do that", while ignoring how they are contributing to the situation)
0 Replies
 
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 04:35 pm
I think engender put his finger on the problem when he pointed out our police are militarized. Tanks bazookas machine guns. When in the hell do they need with this overkill equipment?
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 10:34 pm
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:

I think engender put his finger on the problem when he pointed out our police are militarized. Tanks bazookas machine guns. When in the hell do they need with this overkill equipment?


That is a real good question.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 11:01 pm
@McGentrix,
A good solution is to require police to use the same weapons that are available to the general public.

Or to put it a different way, allow the general public to have access to the same weapons that police use.

That will help to prevent police from having guns that are way too powerful for police work, as such guns will be prohibited to the public.

And it will help to protect the public from progressive efforts to outlaw guns that are appropriate for self defense, as such guns will need to remain available to the police.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Tue 30 Jun, 2020 11:31 pm
@oralloy,
Good idea. Ain't gonna happen, but a good idea, anyway.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 12:20 am
@roger,
This is a democracy. America can make it happen if we all demand it.

A good start will be to insist that such measures be part of any new gun control law.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 08:52 am
@oralloy,
So you think I should have the right to set a 60 caliber machine gun on my front porch just in case rabbits infest my front yard?
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 09:02 am
@RABEL222,
Machine guns are not appropriate for self defense or police work.

Self defense and police work both require well-aimed shots to hit the bad guys and not innocent bystanders.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 03:18 pm
@oralloy,
But with a machine gun you don't have to aim. Just yesterday I killed 27 rabbits and never once aimed at them.
glitterbag
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Jul, 2020 03:39 pm
@RABEL222,
Well, it's certainly a time saver.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2020 02:49 am
@RABEL222,
RABEL222 wrote:
But with a machine gun you don't have to aim.

You do if you want to hit your intended target.

The problem with full auto when it comes to self defense and police work is, it's a lot easier for rounds to go off target.

Dead innocent bystanders are to be avoided if reasonably possible.
RABEL222
 
  2  
Reply Thu 2 Jul, 2020 10:27 am
@oralloy,
Glad you think so. Now if you could convince the minority of police who don't give a damn one way or the other.
0 Replies
 
 

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