Bush concedes

No, this is a thread regarding Social Security. Why don't you start a thread on murderous GIs, if that's what you wish to talk about right now.

Otherwise, take your misdirected anger somewhere else.

McGentrix, why do you insist on framing the conversation as though I'm just "giving" my hard earned money away instead of supporting my family? You seem to have no idea how disengenuous that all is.

But judging by your tone these last several threads, it sure seems obvious that you'd rather do away with taxes all together.

And that is the most telling.

Don't get your panties in a bunch, cjhsa; it's only your sense of indignation that is hurt, unlike real people who get shot and blown up every day.

McG:

To begin, if you don't want people quoting you, don't write something, okay? Otherwise, stand by what you write. You can roll your eyes all day but it doesn't change the fact that you admitted your moral failings, and I and others are well within the bounds of decorum to quote your posts and will continue to do so at every opportunity we see fit.

Now, on to the meat:



Well, let's see.

You and I are both intelligent. This give us a giant advantage when it comes to our society. This also robs us of perspective when it comes to understanding the reasoning and emotion, let alone the actual choices, of those who are less intelligent. Recall that this is at least half of our society.

You can't seriously sit here and say that a man/woman of limited intelligence has all the same options/ability as you or I do. SO, we are given an advantage to make far more money based upon our intelligence. That's okay.

The problem is, what happens to those people who are less able/less intelligent/brought low by circumstance, when they retire? They still have to eat, and if they don't have the money to do so, who is hurt by it? That's right, society; for people will turn to crime before they starve to death, and who can blame them?

To imagine that everyone has equal opportunities, given the vast inequities in basic intelligence, societal connections, quality of basic intelligence (inner-city schools suck) and quality of upbringing is foolish. There are inequities. And those on the low end don't simply vanish when they get old.

You people need to face the fact that SS has allowed many people to work for years at a low rate of pay, which convienently has lead to higher pay for others and all the nice things you bought at such a cheap price. The safety net that SS provides is basically what keeps us from either becoming a much more socialistic society, or one in which we callously abandon those with nothing; which is what I suspect you would do.



Personal Responsibility was thrown away by Republicans long ago, when they decided that it was worth billions of dollars to help non-Americans. Why is it worth tons of money to help people that need help in other countries, but not in our own country?

Even more importantly, the Corporation represents the real death of personal responsibility. Anyone who believes in that concept should call for an immediate end to the protected status of this insiduous social parasite.

Tell me, McG, as you state that we don't need poor people, do you envision a socialistic society? Otherwise, certain people must be poor and others rich; poor and rich are arbitrary terms of comparison, you see. Have you finally come around to our side?

Cycloptichorn

So, you call for equality of results, not equality of opportunity?

Perhaps it still hasn't occured to McGentrix that there are poor, working families who's SS taxes are going right to the rich and their retirements enhanced by other sources of investment income.

And this is fair and equitable?

Maybe McGentrix has an example of SOME society, either today, or a long time ago, which didn't have a SINGLE poor person in the population's ranks.

Cyclo brings up personal responsibility when it comes to corporations. Another point that is rather pertinent to this thread. Dick Cheney's company ended up doing millions of dollars worth of business with Saddam before he became Vice President. And that's when he was CEO.

Boy, talk about personal responsibility...

Obviously I've never been self employed, but I will note that while FICA is reported on my W2, there is no place to report it on my 1040.

Also, if I am an investor and make my living that way, I don't have to pay FICA as long as I don't draw a salary. I woiuld simply pay fed & local taxes on my gain/loss. FICA is a payroll tax, a penalty for working, IMO.

For what it's worth, cjhsa, it's on there somewhere - I believe it goes on schedule C. Self employeed, of course, pay employER and employE halfs. The employer half is a deductable business expense.

Then you are for personal accounts then. Glad to see you agree with Bush about something.



He is quite wealthy for all his work to. I'll betthat really burns you up, huh?

Remember, it's those evil corporations that provide jobs for people. Do you think is was Cheney out there pumping the oil and working in the fields? Nope, it was people getting paid for their work and paying into a failing program called social security that they hope will still be solvent when they get old enough to gain the benefits of it.

Please, Social Security failing? Are you out of your mind? Where do you come up with this stuff!!

In what way is SS failing?!!? And don't tell me it's because it won't be able to pay it's bills in 30 years, because you'd have to make the same argument that our GOVERNMENT is failing, as we can't pay our bills RIGHT NOW. So go ahead, tell me, how is it failing?

Cycloptichorn

WTF are you talking about? Where did I say that the other sources of investment were government run via SS? I was talking about managing your OWN investments WITHOUT the government involved.

I am NOT for personal accounts, for the sole purpose that it does NOTHING TO HELP SS. Hello? Did you catch the press conference the other day? See, unlike you, who profess that you are a selfish prick, I NEVER professed that I was for personal accounts.

But it sure seems like you'd want to eliminate taxes altogether, which explains your current rationale.

Mysteriously, nobody in the administration is talking about a SS "crisis" anymore.

The only thing that's failing here is Bush's inability to sell his scheme to the American people.

Big failure. But that is par for the course with the Bush administration...

"Remember, it's those evil corporations that provide jobs for people. "

The mafia provides jobs too. Drug gangs provide jobs and generate fantastic wealth.

Once certain pesky tenets of legality, human rights, basic regard for others and the environment, etc are abandoned, all sorts of lucrative enterprises can flourish.

Wrongo. People provide jobs for people. There were jobs long before the Corporation came about and there will be long after this corrupt institution of our society is gone.

Cycloptichorn

It's also the small businesses (which provide jobs, and which Bush talks the talk but never walks the walk) that are suffering because of these evil corporations.

Is that a joke?

Why do you suppose things like the Industrial age happened?

How many people do large corporations employ? How many people need to hire Human Resource people to work in their shoe store? How many customer service representatives does your local bodega need? How many mail room sorters can the local clothes seller employ?

These people have jobs and our country is as successful as it is becusae of corporations. You may not like it, but that's the way it is.

The country is mired in debt, plagued by violence, overrun with religious zombies and remains a literary, musical and intellectual nonentity.

To call America "a success" is laughable.

McG,

There is a huge difference between a BUSINESS and a CORPORATION. Do you know what the difference is?

Cycloptichorn

Our country is also a joke, with corporations like Enron, Worldcom, and others blatantly skirting the laws, ripping off the consumer, as well as entire states, of billions of dollars.

We currently have Halliburton overcharges of @ $109 million.

Where's the accountability. Oh, I know. Bush got rid of it.

Not much success when the little guy is screwed by the very company he/she works for.

Why didn't neocons care at all when California was being ripped off by Enron during the energy crisis?

See, this is one of the core issues which distinguishes the neocons from progressive liberals. It is that "selfish prick" mentality from neocons that seems to not give a **** about the everyday hard worker in this country.