Little Girls and Beauty

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Sozlet's always been a creative, artistic type. Her favorite toy at age one or so was a box of silk scarves, which she would drape and demand that we tie on her in very specific ways. I have an affection for clothes/ fashion as well, have enjoyed things like getting her input while shopping and the outfits she puts together for herself. Fun to see a very definite sense of style developing.

However, I'm starting to get a little concerned. Where this phase (the part I'm concerned about) seems to have started is that her outfits are the talk of her preschool. (How does this happen?) When we arrive for the day, there are lots of oohs and ahhs from teachers and female students (boys don't seem to care much), and her best friend's mom has told me, rather ruefully, that bf insists on wearing outfits "like [sozlet]".

So what does she wear? I dunno. We don't spend a lot of money on clothes or anything, make some things (we're making a skirt from a couple of Target napkins now, "we" because she's giving me design input) but she puts things together in interesting ways, a lot of emphasis on feminine -- pink and flowers and polka dots and such. One of her favorite things are glittery fabric flower ponytail holders in 6 colors that we often match to a color she's wearing. That kind of thing.

I go ahead and encourage this fashion stuff because she enjoys it, I see it as part of the general creativity (she draws a ton, makes things a lot), and it's also part of the larger picture. (i.e. she's not all about cute and pretty, at all.)

So I'm worried it's getting out of hand, and am not sure how to address it. She used to wear pants about as much as skirts -- she preferred pink or a print of some kind, sure, but she didn't care about pants per se. Now she wants skirts skirts and only skirts. :-? She wears them with tights and they're all fullish and shortish, not like they impair her mobility at all. She's zooming all over the playground and doing sword fights with the boys in her little pink skirts.

This came up because today after her bath I went and got some clothes for her -- black leggings, a pink and red t-shirt, and a polarfleece pullover (black with pink, red, and other colored stripes.) She objected STRENUOUSLY. Not leggings!!! And not those colors!!! I pointed out the pink stripes and she was in tears -- "no, it's too BLACK and FUZZY and STRIPEY!!!"

Oh good grief.

(Disclaimer, she's fine now but just got over some sort of 24-hour bug or bad food -- barfing for about 8 hours straight, then recovery from dehydration. Emotions a little higher than usual.)

She ended up saying that her best friend had told her she didn't like that pullover. :-?

They're FOUR!

This is just a general thing lately, though -- she is always nattering on about makeup (I've occasionally let her wear nail polish, but that's it.) She wants to wear my perfume. She's upset about the fact that her hair isn't yellow or red. (RED-red, like the Little Mermaid.) (This was also occasion for tears -- I said that maybe when she was older I'd let her dye it, and she said "but I want to look in the MIRROR and see RED hair like the LITTLE MERMAID!!!" (She calmed down when I told her that her hair is chestnut, like a beautiful Arabian horse -- just "brown" wasn't cutting it, for her.)

It doesn't seem to be a control thing, that's just not the vibe and she's thrilled when I assemble "beautiful" outfits for her. It doesn't seem like it's just that she wants to do it all herself.

As long as she's warm enough and her mobility isn't impaired, (a lot of her skirts also have little under-shorts attached so I mean she can hang upside-down on the monkey bars or whatever), I don't object to her wearing skirts, per se. But I'm not sure what I think about this whole hyper-femininity thing, and want to decide before I lay down any rules. (i.e. do I overrule her when she wants to wear skirts and only skirts? Why?)

My tendency is towards just riding it out, assuming it's a phase, and continuing to do the stuff I've been doing throughout about the importance (or lack thereof) of beauty.

And maybe curtailing viewing of Disney movies -- that's right about when this kicked into overdrive. :-?

I dunno. Thoughts?

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Re: Little Girls and Beauty

sozobe wrote:

This came up because today after her bath I went and got some clothes for her -- black leggings, a pink and red t-shirt, and a polarfleece pullover (black with pink, red, and other colored stripes.) She objected STRENUOUSLY. Not leggings!!! And not those colors!!! I pointed out the pink stripes and she was in tears -- "no, it's too BLACK and FUZZY and STRIPEY!!!"

Oh good grief.

sozobe wrote:

She's upset about the fact that her hair isn't yellow or red. (RED-red, like the Little Mermaid.) (This was also occasion for tears -- I said that maybe when she was older I'd let her dye it, and she said "but I want to look in the MIRROR and see RED hair like the LITTLE MERMAID!!!" (She calmed down when I told her that her hair is chestnut, like a beautiful Arabian horse -- just "brown" wasn't cutting it, for her.)

<big grin>

She is a doll, that little girl of yours ... <giggles>

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Seriously tho, what is it exactly you think might go wrong? And isnt it a phase many girls go through?

I think its great what you're doing, encouraging her creativity like that - and, indirectly, through that her self-confidence as well! You've got some shy four-year olds - your daughter doesnt sound like one! And the way you're working with her like that - my parents just bought my clothes for me, and they were horrible, and I still think I could have avoided some of the playground aggro as a 6 or 8-year old if i'd had less lame clothes ...

Hey, as long as she's getting your instinctive "oh good grief" message as well, and occasionally she'll just have to, like, wear something warm, for example, fashionableness be damned, so it doesnt all become one big spoiling feast .. I dunno!

<waiting for some actual parents to chime in>

<loving the anecdotes though. She's so cute! Razz

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If the Sozelet insisted on practicing the piano for two hours every day, would you be disturbed? Suppose every time you had chicken she insisted on identifying every single bone? Suppose she spent every afternoon doing summersaults and cartwheels?

She happens to be female, fond of pink and into style as an extension of what/who she is.

If she were only a clothes horse, I'd worry. She's much more complex than a clothes horse. If nothing else, she's a style setter.

The lust for hair dye and makeup is slightly different--at least from my old fashioned perspective. Personally, I'd tell her that hair dye, eye shadow and the other cosmetic allures are for women who are husband hunting. Does she really want a husband?

Enjoy her--but hold your dominion.

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Very interesting. I assume she is going to grow up with a good design eye, whatever she may end up doing. As time passes she may start to notice the whole environment and how things work together or don't, re function as well as surface style. So, oddly, my concern would only be that she stop here and be all involved with pink/whatever dresses at seventeen and thirty seven and ninety one - and I don't really mean that, I don't think there is a chance at all of that.

As long as she doesn't get stuck in a surfaces-of-things role forever, I'm all for it. I was laughing and enjoying your description so much. The other thing to watch out for is if she feels negatively about anyone because they "dress funny", but again, you'd pick up on that as it was happening, if it did.

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I was 8 or 9 the year hamburger explained to me that I was going to be in charge of buying all of my own clothes from that point forward. I was going to have a certain amount of money available each month (about the equivalent of $50 these days), and my wardrobe other than winter coats and boots had to come out of that.

With that, he handed me my money for the summer and took me shopping. I bought pink shorts, pink pants, pink capris, pink t-shirts, pink sneakers, pink socks, pink underwear, pink everything. He didn't say boo about anything.

About a week later, when I wanted something different to wear other than my now annoying pink wardrobe, we had a little talk. I was done for the summer. I could wear pink, or anything that fit from the year before (I'd had a bit of a growth spurt in the spring, so everything was really too short). I'd be getting more money at the end of August, for my new school wardrobe. There was some pouting. Embarrassed

There is a summer's worth of ehBeth-in-pink photos. I didn't wear pink again for a decade and stil only wear it sparingly.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A good friend's daughter, littleElizabeth, went from age 4 to 7 refusing to wear matching socks. Temper tantrum refusing. Her parents decided quickly it wasn't worth discussing. She's in her late teens now, still has an independent, interesting sense of style - but her socks match (now mine don't)

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Phases. Most of us go through wardrobe phases, at least once or twice. Most of us come out the other end without looking like Barbie or Ariel for the rest of our lives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Awareness is good. But dinna worry too much. Definitely hold the line in terms of health (like - ya have to wear a coat when it's snowing), but the rest is likely negotiable. I'm not sure I'd blame Disney - girls were like this before Disney. Weird that it does seem to generally be more of a girl 'issue'. Some small boys have VERRA VERRA strong feelings about clothing as well - though no one seems to care much about what it 'means'.

The make-up to me seems a slightly different thing. Not sure why or how.
<mulling>

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Ha! What a great story well told.

Maybe sozlet would be willing to give Mo lessons. He is insisting on chosing his clothing and I am downright embarrased half the time.

Underpants have to go on backwards so the big picure is where he can see it. If it were up to him, underpants would be the only article of clothing available for purchase.

I think sozlet sounds so incredibly cool.

You know she's not dumb and that her looks are not going to be her end-all, be-all. I think she's just having fun with it.

Do you know that they make really wild "one day" hair dye? It washes out really easy and it comes in outrageous disney-heroine type colors. Maybe if you let her try it on for a day.....

I'd draw the line at face piercing or tattoos but anything else is really just good fun.

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I wouldn't worry too much either Sozobe.

My daughter loved to play dress up with princess dresses
and jewelery, make-up, high heels - the works!
Every day clothes she never objected to anything I bought
or I put out for her to wear. Mostly her clothes came
from Europe and although they were sometimes different,
she never really cared too much.

From Kindergarten on she's been wearing uniform for most
of the day and afterwards she'll wear something comfortable she can choose herself.

I like ehBeth's story of being able to buy your own clothes,
regardless of the color Wink

I wish I could have done that
as a child, as my mother and I had and have such different tastes, I never felt comfortable in the outfits she bought
for me (all pretty dressen with lace und ruffles *argh*).

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Good grief! This is instinctive behavior. I had assumed it was taught.

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Hee hee hee...!

It really does seem to be instinctive! As far back as I can remember she's expressed a preference for certain clothes and especially certain colors.

How old is your daughter now, CJ? How did you handle the makeup thing?

Another thing that prompted this post is that we have big fat sidewalk chalk in several colors, and she took the pink chalk and made "makeup" (blush) out of it. Hmm.

I agree with what other people have said about the clothes bothering me less than the makeup thing. I'm frankly scared to let her dye her hair because I think the likelihood she'd want to keep doing it would be high, and I'm not sure if that's a battle I'd want to fight. For now, that particular issue has settled down, so won't revive it, but definitely something to keep in mind.

I love the thing about the big picture going where Mo can see it. Ha! We gotta get these guys together someday...

$50 a month! Wow, that hamburger! I don't think we spend nearly that much now. One thing that was fun this year though is it's the first time she's been able to wear stuff for two seasons running, so we don't NEED to buy as much stuff, or if we do it's the more fun/ on-sale kinds of stuff.

Nice idea. Ties in to what Osso is saying too, about evolving from this stage -- prolly best from that perspective, letting her work through it rather than getting hung up on it because it's forbidden or whatever. (I mean I can't quite imagine outlawing it, but as a concept.)

I don't think she's gotten into the negativity part ("dressing funny"), good point though. Something to keep an eye out for.

I'm not sure she wanted hair dye per se, she wanted her hair to BE red -- like magically poof there we go red hair. I brought up the dye. But yeah, makeup. I'm not sure if the husband thing would work because she LOVES weddings -- we have mock weddings allll the time. ("I, Mama, take you, sozlet, to be my lawfully wedded daughter...")

I loved your point about she's practicing a skill, great way to look at it, thanks.

nimh, you're right, thanks for perspective. I think after this I'm feeling better about fine, she can wear whatever she wants to wear as long as it meets minimum requirements (warmth et al.)

Makeup I'm still not sure of. Mulling too. Will look forward to CJ's take.

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Quote:

How old is your daughter now, CJ? How did you handle the makeup thing?

She is 9 years old Sozobe and the makeup was
taken care of for me by her school, a catholic school, and from Kindergarten on, she's wearing uniform and obeying by strikt policies concerning jewelery , makeup and nailpolish.

So, that was the answer for us Wink

Sometimes, on the weekends she's allowed to use make-up
on her face, however she has sensitive skin and tends to
break out with all the kiddy makeup, so she is much more
careful in what to apply if at all. A shiny lipgloss is all she
wants these days.

I was much worse when I was her age. In fact, I used
my watercolors for makeup and I looked like Elvira by the
time I was through. I wore my mothers high heels and
broke off a heel once in a while. I was more excited over
the red lipstick I got for my 5th birthday as all the barbies
that came along.

I grew out of it and by the time I was a teenager I didn't
use makeup at all, still don't apply too much.

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Gee, this is all reminding me. I used to like to play in a neighbor's closet while my mother and she were talking. She was a nice woman who happened to have small feet and lots of fancy high heels.... (I was eight..)

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Of course Disney is not the Sozolet's only source of heroines.

I'd start insisting on at least one brain-minded babe every week as a role model.

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ehBeth wrote:

I was 8 or 9 the year hamburger explained to me that I was going to be in charge of buying all of my own clothes from that point forward. I was going to have a certain amount of money available each month (about the equivalent of $50 these days), and my wardrobe other than winter coats and boots had to come out of that.

$50 a month at 8?! Holy Ef! Living in (N-)America does have its advantages eh ... !

I got "clothing money" from age, I dunno, 13 onwards - and it was, as I remember, 75 guilders a month (=35$) - and that was considered a hell of a lot for my age. I think it went up to - (not sure) - 125 or 150 guilders a month by the time I was 17 (still only 60-70$) ... (not that I needed much at that time, considering my "style" at the time Razz

...)

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I think nimh might get spanked for that parenthetical "N"... :-D

Noddy, I agree. Sozlet's favorite superhero is Britta, "Smart and strong and brave". (No mention of appearance, though she's loosely based on one of sozlet's dolls.) Britta's been appearing at least once daily in (home-made) stories for oh, a long time.

Just reminded me of something, a book I have called "Tatterhood" which is a collection of folktales featuring plucky females. Might look there for some source material.

That's the whole balance thing again, not wanting to get too 80's and Women's Studies about it, but not wanting a 5-y-o Britney Spears or whatever.

Eh, not really too concerned about it though. She's quick to draw and accept praise for bravery ("I was very brave at the doctor's office") and intelligence, too, among other things. Last night we were reading a Richard Scarry book and she said in her best professorial tone -- "Dr. Bandage lives in Busytown... and Dr. Doctor lives in the same place as Dr. Bandage... so Dr. Doctor must live in Busytown!" Much praise at her deductive skills followed and much basking in said praise.

I think the long and the short of it is that she's a ham. :-D She is definitely NOT shy, and loves being the center of attention. I think the happiest she's ever been was when she was about 9 months old and we went to a big family gathering. I have a picture of her sitting on the floor in grandma's living room with about a dozen people gathered around grinning at her -- her expression is blissful.

CJ, when did you start letting your daughter wear lip gloss?

We currently have a pretty good line between at-home dress-up and what you can wear out/ to school, so I could imagine make-up being added to that. (OK occasionally at home, that's it.) It's just a threshold I'm hesitant to cross. I don't think I played with makeup until I was 13 or something.

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You might check you local library for some History of Costume books.

Note here: When my sons had been Very Good they were each allowed to select a "grown-up picture book" at the library. History of Costume books were popular but we lingered in "arms and armor" rather than "frills and flounces".

You might also encourage costuming dolls for adventure--making rather than buying the costumes. How do you show that the witch is wicked?

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Sozobe--

Just found this while chasing down drug interactions. The information may be too basic for you, but that happens when you develop a deep and abiding interest in a topic.

http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/Articles/News/0,10141,-293,00.html

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You think you have problems, my daughter saw this teenage girl with pink hair and said “Wow, can I get pink hair too?”

But seriously I have heard a lot of parents say their little girls will only wear skirts. I think they like to dress up. I also worry about the pretty thing. The other day I was discussing with my daughter about moving up to the 1st grade. I asked if she knew the 1st grade teacher. She said that the teacher was very nice, but she looked funny. She has a big nose. I got in an explanation about how much more important it is be nice than to look nice and how we cannot control the way we look, blah, blah. Hopefully she got the point.

My daughter did receive some play make up and she loves it. I wasn’t really a fan of it either, but once in a while she can use it, but needs to clean her face off before she goes outside. There are some toy make up that is plastic with no real color, you just pretend to put it on. It was helpful for me when my daughter kept wanting to use my make up when I was getting ready in the morning.

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How funny!
I read this, and i turned around and asked my mom what I did at sozlet's age.
My ' fashion thing' was unicorns. Unicorns, unicorns, unicorns..... to the point that I refused one day to wear underware because they did not have a unicorn on them. Question

hahaha!!!
My mom said i wanted ANYTHING that had a unicorn on it. Tacky glittery shirts with unicorns on them. ( remember the glitter shirts from late 70s-early 80s???!) I would wear those for DAYS sometimes. My mother said I would hide them in my room so she couldnt wash them because I wanted to wear them without having to wear anything diffrent. Confused

My mom said she would ask me WHY.. and my responces were things like :
Im a girl, I should wear this
It is pretty
Im not a boy. I wont wear a regular horse.
It is me.
When i grow up I want a unicorn so I have to wear one now so I know what to do later.

And a few other silly answers.
Basically.. my point, is that this seems like a phase. At 4-5 we are just becoming introduced to larger populations of other people our size. (kindergarden being the biggest introduction) Individuality is a must even though we dont understand it. And with sozlet getting compliments and questions about her wardrobe choices, Im sure it is VERY important to her to continue that behavior because it gives her a sense of belonging or PLACE for her in her class, and almost a sense of responsibility when it comes to fueling those ooohhh's and aaahhh's on a regular basis.
This may be very helpful for her in the long run learning EARLY that people will accept her and respect her for being an individual .

hehe.. it sounds cute too!! I would love to see a little girl with as much personality as little sozlet! hehe!!

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Thanks, Noddy! Yep, I found the AAP recommendations a few days ago after further investigation of a link ehBeth provided -- printed it out for brandishing under pediatrician noses if necessary.

Linkat, great idea about fake make-up. She has a fake lipstick (just plastic, doesn't mark her up at all), she loves that.

Can you tell me more about the play makeup? How old was your daughter when she started using that?

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