Elon Musk the founder of Tesla is a racial bigot

@georgeob1,

Quote:

Unlike hybrids, all electric vehicles don't reduce CO2 emissions at all, when one considers the fossil fuel required to generate the electrical energy to charge them.

Considering the current situation with electricity generation in the US, electric vehicles cut CO2 emissions by almost two-thirds.

https://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.php

With intelligent policy, the carbon reduction from electric cars can be improved even more... for example providing subsidies for use of alternative power, and off-hours pricing.

If you care about climate change... you should be rooting (very strongly) for electric cars.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

georgeob1 wrote:

Unlike hybrids, all electric vehicles don't reduce CO2 emissions at all, when one considers the fossil fuel required to generate the electrical energy to charge them.

That’s a false comment. For one, Tesla’s use the same brake-regenerative technologies that hybrids use. For two, generating power at a power plant (especially new renewable energy plants) is much more efficient and has less CO2 emissions than a gasoline engine. Not to mention that the power grid is becoming “greener” everyday while gasoline engines emit more CO2 everyday as they become less efficient with age.

It’s like you’re getting your talking points from the 90’s.

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George is an establishment capitalist shill--he probably has money in the big three automakers.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

George is an establishment capitalist shill--he probably has money in the big three automakers.

Such blatant trolling Setanta. You aren't even trying to hide it. The personal attacks are ridiculous.

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@Setanta,

Setanta wrote:

George is an establishment capitalist shill--he probably has money in the big three automakers.

Another fine showing for the in-crowd! There were at least 6 up-thumbs for this childish personal attack. Most people here probably would say they love electric cars if Setanta said so.

And Setanta still denies it....

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@Setanta,

We really don't know that, but georgeob hasn't denied it either.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

cicerone imposter wrote:

We really don't know that, but georgeob hasn't denied it either.

You guys are really nasty to people who are outside the group.

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@maxdancona,

"The group" - haha

George has dished out worse. So have you.

I thumbed your post down, just FYI. I did so because it's a dumb post.

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@maxdancona,

Quote:

You guys are really nasty to people who are outside the group.

What group? There are many different issues that comes up on social media like able2know. I agree with some, and not with others. I post my .02c worth of personal opinion which can be right or wrong. I've been corrected before by other members on a2k. That's what makes able2know so interesting. I have organized some able2know meets in San Francisco, Austin, NYC, and London. I'm also aware of meets in Boston and Seattle. There really are no "groups." For many of the active members, I'm sure we have disagreements on many levels. That's all part of the challenge and the fun of a2k.

BTW, we had a meet in San Francisco some years ago where I met georgeob. I thought he was a very amiable guy with war stories to share about his time in the US Navy. I don't always agree with him on politics, but I don't always agree about politics with my siblings and others. I like to call georgeob a friend.

1 Reply

@cicerone imposter,

Setanta was directly attacking George's character. Your post seemed to be a backhanded swipe, piling on. The Setantites love love Setanta's insults, that his the reason they adore him.

Other than devotion to Setanta, I don't see any other reason to up-thumb personal attacks, nor do I think that the apparent opposition to electric cars here is sincere.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

The Setantites love love Setanta's insults, that his the reason they adore him.

Can you name the members of this group?

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Anyone who won't do what Max tells them to. It's beyond pathetic, he trots out this same sorry tale of victimhood about how there's some clique who act as one in picking on A2K's saddest loser.

He refuses to accept the truth which is individuals have decided for themselves that an attention seeking killjoy misogynist isn't worth bothering with.

It's some sort of compulsive behaviour, he has to tell people what to do then plays the victim when nobody wants to know. What he hasn't grasped is that people only pay attention to people they respect, not those they find disgusting.

https://tstoaddicts.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/disapprovingsquirrel_picket_disapprovingly_front_walk_right_image_2.png

1 Reply

I would point out that, first, this thread is about racist attitudes, not about the relative meris of electric cars. I pointed out at the outset that Musk has peddled bullshit about Mars, and that I tuned him out thereafter. At no time have I denigrated electric cars and their use.

Second, a discussion of the alleged racist attitudes of Mr. Musk, especially when one links reliable news items about lawsuits brought against him for racist discrimination is valid in and of itself, without any reference to the utility and desirability of electric cars. Edison produced a few valuable inventions, but was, in many respects, a selfish and exploiting man, and one who exploited his young employees, particularly Nikola Tesla. He also had heavily invested in direct current electrical products and DC generation, and made a mighty effort to demonize alternating current and its use, including a melodramatic electrocution of a horse using AC. Edison's valuable inventions stand on their own merit. Those inventions do not, however, exculpate him for his exploitation of his employees, such as Tesla, nor for his efforts to ruin George Westinghouse and the proponents of AC.

Apart from that, I'm rather hacked-off at the members of my group, who had not been keeping up with their monthly payments to me.

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Quote:

Elon Musk had better have the money lined up to take Tesla private or he could be in serious trouble with regulators.

There is never a dull moment with the mercurial Mr Musk, but he excelled himself on Tuesday, stunning the markets by tweeting that he was considering taking the company private by buying publicly available shares for $420 each - a significant premium to the $340 they were trading at before he dropped his bombshell.

The shares surged 11% to $380, which will have left the people who have been betting the shares would fall nursing very heavy losses.

It will have given Mr Musk great pleasure to get one over on the naysayers. But he's playing a potentially dangerous game.

If it turns out his Twitter promise - that he has secured the tens of billions of dollars he would need to buy out public shareholders - is in any way shaky, then he could find himself accused of price manipulation. It's a very serious charge, which can land you in jail.

There is no doubt there is some sense in taking the company private. Private companies are not subject to the same scrutiny from investors, who want to see very transparent earnings on a quarter-by-quarter basis - and if you don't deliver it, your share price can be heavily punished.

Given Tesla's stratospheric ambitions, that can happen quite easily - one reason why Tesla is the most popular company to bet against (the most "shorted" stock).

Also Mr Musk did not enjoy having to answer the forensic questioning of Wall Street analysts who want minutiae on production, sales, timings, earnings et al.

In May, he told a gathering of analysts: "Boring bonehead questions are not cool. Next." Then he followed it with: "We're going to go to YouTube. Sorry, these questions are so dry. They're killing me."

If he takes the company private, he won't have to do this.

If it turns out that he doesn't have the financial firepower to deliver on his tweet, the regulators may think he's more than a bonehead.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-45112072

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@maxdancona,

I suspect the authors of the data you cited were a bit biased in their modelling For example, they attribute a share of the costs (or emissions) if extracting, refining and distributing gasoline for conventional vehicles, but it is not evident that they do the same for the extraction & processing for the, coal or natural gas used in generating the electrical power, or the lithium and other materials used in electrical vehicles; or the mechanical efficiency of the transmission and drive train in an electrical vehicle. All these elements are included in the reference data for conventional vehicles.

For reference the Thermal efficiency of a modern coal fired plant is ~ 34% while that for a combined cycle gas fired plant is ~56%. Transmission efficiency through the electrical grid and local low voltage lines is ~ 94%, and that for charging & discharging a battery is ~98%. Throw in the 80% efficiency of the transmission & drive train of an electrical vehicle and you get 24% thermal efficiency for battery powered autos using coal generated electrical power and 41% for gas generation plants. These figures do not include the coasts for extracting, processing and delivering the gas and coal used , as is included in the comparisons with conventional autos. If this was done the above efficiencies would be reduced significantly.

The equivalent thermal efficiency of modern automobiles ranges from 25% to 50%. The data in your source appears to attribute fuel production emissions to conventional autos but not to electrical vehicles and their ultimate power sources.

Unlike all electrical vehicles Hybrid engines are indeed much more efficient, using a constant speed, highly efficient engine to charge the battery and propel the vehicle at constant speeds; and the battery & motor for acceleration & transients. It's a good combination of the best features of both sources.

Thanks for your comments regarding Setanta's post. I'm indifferent to his irritable assaults. He's an interesting guy but is unfortunately locked inside a miserable personality. He punishes himself far more than those he attacks.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Izzy wrote:

What he hasn't grasped is that people only pay attention to people they respect, not those they find disgusting.

Thank you Izzy!

This is the best acknowledgment of the in-crowd that I have seen. The in-crowd are the people you "respect". The outsiders are people you "find disgusting". And whether you "pay attention" to someone's post depends on how you feel about them as a person.

(One thing you got wrong though.... I am actually A2K's happiest loser. Watching you and Setanta lose it this way is kind of fun.)

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

George,

I am not going to do back of the envelope calculations on thermal efficiency. There are reputable research groups that are doing this, and it seems to me that the independent (unbiased) scientific groups are pretty consistently saying that electric cars have a significantly lower carbon footprint than either internal combustion engines or hybrids.

That being said, I think the main point being made by that article was that an increasing percentage of power in the US is being generated without fossil fuels.

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@maxdancona,

The electrical grid, over time, continues to get cleaner and "greener."

Cars, over time, only get more and more polluting. Now even the gasoline efficiency rules have been rolled back, so they won't even begin their life-cycles more green than we have today.

Electric cars produced today will be MORE green in 10 year. Even more in 20 years.

Can't say the same about gasoline vehicles.

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@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

Izzy wrote:
What he hasn't grasped is that people only pay attention to people they respect, not those they find disgusting.

Thank you Izzy!

This is the best acknowledgment of the in-crowd that I have seen. The in-crowd are the people you "respect". The outsiders are people you "find disgusting". And whether you "pay attention" to someone's post depends on how you feel about them as a person.

Izzy is not describing an "in-crowd" you fool (fool describes your comment, not you as a person - I need to walk a fine line with you). She's describing human personality and human communication.

You often twist words and statements; that's dishonest.

2 Replies

@maporsche,

I see what you did there MaPorsche Wink

I like your sense of humor.

0 Replies

Elon Musk the founder of Tesla is a racial bigot

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