The leaking southern border.

There's always room for a glass of wine

I'm as much against illegal and uncontrolled immigration as ever, but I don't have issues with the money being sent home. Far from it. This shows the kind of character and responsibility we need most, especially those at or near the minimum wage level. Hey, we buy all kinds of cheap stuff from, say China, and send them money. We buy cheap labor from Mexico and points south. We send them money.

Don't make too many assumptions about those wage levels, by the way. Our rig crews in the oilfields of northern NM start out at 9.00/hr + 1.00/hr in every pay period without an accident or safety violation. Operators range from 13.50 + 1.50 safety bonus up to 15.00. Our crews are roughly 80% hispanic, though with the laws as written, it is impossible to know either nationality or legality for certain. Question that last statement all you wish, but there she is.

JW, For you, it's always "open house."

How can you not know? Don't you have to seek ID when you hire someone?

Baldimo, I doubt very much many employers are enforcing the Green Card or other citizenship id's to work in the US.

Thanks, c.i.! Your cellar sounds awesome! I have some leftover Chardonnay (vintage last Tuesday) in the fridge LOL.

That is a majority of the issue.

I think there's two sides to every issue. There are too many pros and cons for me to arrive at any conclusion.

Sorry, but the straight answer is 'yes and no.'

First, you must do what you are required to do. What is not required is prohibited.

Specifically, at time of hire, the employee fills out the top section of the INS form I-9. The employer completes the second section. In the top section, the employee states whether he is a US citizen, or not. You cannot challenge the statement.

Now, completion of the second section requires the employer, or his representative (me) to fill in one, two, or three of the documentation columns. Column A both identifies the person and certifies his right to work in the US. A US passport completes the requirement. So does a resident alien card. There are several others, which you won't see in a decade. Complete column A, certify you have seen the document, and you are finished. May you demand a social security? NO. Can you require a valid driver license? No, not for this purpose. If the job actually requires a license, fine, but that has nothing to do with the I-9 or employment eligibility for non driving jobs.

Lacking a column A document, you must - MUST - have one document for column B, and one for column C. Column B is a driver license, a state issued id card, or half a dozen others which you will never see in a decade of filling out I-9s. I've done it for over a decade, and that's all I've ever been presented with. Column C shows a right to work in the US. A social security card is all I've ever been offered. If you see the ss card and it has not been plastic laminated or obviously counterfeit, you are done. You have completed your requirements; you may do nothing more.

Now, here's an oddity. If someone chooses, for example, to present you with a resident alien identification, you are never entitled to see that social security care, but which you must otherwise demand.

Now, for social security purposes, they still don't have to present the card. If they give you a number, though, you may call ss admin, give the name, sex, age, and number. If it doesn't match up, they advise you to advise the employee to drop by the local office and clear up the problem. Again, at that point, you have done all you must do.

It's an amazing system, Baldimo, and it sounds like it is designed to encourage undocumented workers, but it's what we live with. Oh, to protect itself, the employer may make copies of these documents for the form I-9. We are advised that if we do, we must make copies of everyone's, or be open to charges of discrimination.

How can that be? If the employers are not asking for ID then they are not doing part of their jobs. Every job I have ever had requested at minimum my SS card and my Drivers licenses. If they are not asking for these and verifying then they should have their butts nailed to the wall.

How can that be? If the employers are not asking for ID then they are not doing part of their jobs. Every job I have ever had requested at minimum my SS card and my Drivers licenses. If they are not asking for these and verifying then they should have their butts nailed to the wall.

Sorry for the delayed answer, Baldimo, but to repeat after the fact, so to speak, they wouldn't have to specifically ask for social card and driver license. It is frustrating, by the way.

I'll bet a bottom dollar many who work on our farmlands are illegal immigrants, and if the farmers don't hire them, the harvest will go unpicked. Most of our restaurants in Silicon Valley are manned by Mexicans. If they don't do the jobs, I doubt we'll have the number of restaurants we have available in our area - which adds tremendously to our standard of living, culture, and choice. If the illegal Mexicans disappeared, I doubt we'll have the fresh food on our table or the choice of restaurants we now have. It's quite easy to criticise our leaky borders, but that's really the responsibility of our federal government. That's been a problem ever since I can remember; but I wouldn't go so far as to blame the employers. If I was a farmer or running a restaurant, I'd probably do the same thing. When a business needs manpower, and nobody else is avaiable, you hire who is. If our government is serious about our leaky borders, they should take care of it.

I have to read Roger's post closer, not to argue with it but to understand. I have had no personal work with illegals, so called, as such, since I am a desk type, mostly. Except the guy who hired me years ago as a beginning landarch, a guy who had a masters in planning from usc, was born in a camp in wyoming in the early forties, a japanese american. And his small family was brought along by a bracero family in southern california. He speaks better spanish than japanese, but not by much, speaking english better than either of those as he does. He can talk rings around any of us, patiently.

People like him are our backbone.

So, I don't want bombers here across borders either, but I don't like general anti-immigrant rants.

c.i. - We'd still have the fresh food, but a head of lettuce would cost about $12.00!

And it won't be fresh.

But the issue is illegal immigration, osso, not immigration. Make it easier to do legally, establish the bureaucracy that can handle the flood, and find a way to block the others trying to bypass the legal system.

roger, Yes, it is about illegal immigration. That's the sole responsibility of the feds, and they haven't done a good job forever. At some point, we must accept the fact that the feds will never take care of illegal immigration. Sitting on our hands is not an option.

Actually, you could start with employers, if you wanted. If I had the 15 to 45 minutes to spend, I could verify ss numbers for each new hire. So what if I did? So, nothing. You "tell them to go to the social security office and get the problem cleared up." Again, so what? Nothing happens. I give you my word, I've been through this, and nothing happens. You have to understand that you cannot fire someone just because ss cannot reconcile the number to the person. Actually, you could start with employers, if you wanted. If I had the 15 to 45 minutes to spend, I could verify ss numbers for each new hire. So what if I did? So, nothing. You "tell them to go to the social security office and get the problem cleared up." Again, so what? Nothing happens. I give you my word, I've been through this, and nothing happens. You have to understand that you cannot fire someone just because ss cannot reconcile the number to the person. As it stands now, you would be wide open for a lawsuit, with no help from the government that gets you out on that limb in the first place.

Like I said, you do what is required. Period.

Roger, I get your point, about making it easier for regular (?!) immigrants and blocking the odd drugwhirled person or psychopersonage. I am not here with answers, I only react to what I see on some posts as venom re immigrants.

In the southwest at least, there weren't borders all so long ago. The proscription is applied after much living on the land across borders.

I can see new laws re countries, but have trouble with the venom for just normal people who live along these places.

Yah, I can see that people pretend, and there is the problem.

Still, I am uncomfortable with the venom, it doesn't relate to the history of the land.