0
   

Do the Dems hate Wall Street?

 
 
RexRed
 
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 12:22 pm
Why is it so wrong that Americans invest into their own economy through partial privatization of social security? The dems are so against Wall Street having any kind of boost. Yet they think the American people should trust them with the economy?
  • Topic Stats
  • Top Replies
  • Link to this Topic
Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 2,925 • Replies: 76
No top replies

 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 12:23 pm
What?

That doesn't make any sense at all.

Care to explain more fully?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 12:47 pm
Dems and some repubs are against privatization which has only one motive to me. To disinherit the people and to keep government's controlling power over our lives. We are paying our own interest when the government is in control of "the bank"... I cannot see any other reasoning. Bush has got it right. I believe Bush will bring America to a more competitive environment in the work place through privatization. This will give America an edge in education, technology manufacturing etc.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 12:55 pm
WHAT?!!?!

That made even less sense than your first post! But let's see if I can figure it out.

Quote:
Dems and some repubs are against privatization which has only one motive to me. To disinherit the people and to keep government's controlling power over our lives.


I suppose if you asked them why they are against privatization, they would give you a lot of reasons besides 'keeping gv't controlling our lives.' Look at Social Security this way: even though you are against it, Rex, if you were in a terrible accident, or your family was all killed, or a flood washed away everything you had, or if you invested badly and lost all your money, or you got cancer and had to spend all your investments just to stay alive, there would still be some money sitting around to help you out, no matter what. And that's gov't control of our lives?

Quote:
We are paying our own interest when the government is in control of "the bank"... I cannot see any other reasoning.


?? I don't understand this at all.

Quote:
Bush has got it right. I believe Bush will bring America to a more competitive environment in the work place through privatization. This will give America an edge in education, technology manufacturing etc.


I'd like you to explain how Privatization of Social Security will lead to a more competetive environment in the workplace (and why is a more competitive environment a good thing? be specific, plz). Why will America get an 'edge' in education, technology, and manufacturing (of all things) through these SS reforms that Bush wants to push through?



I'm not trying to badger ya; I really don't see the connections you are trying to make here between Social Security, gov't control of one's life, and increases in manufacturing and technology.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 12:58 pm
RexRed:

Why is it so wrong to actually be HONEST about this topic rather than sound like a fool in attempting to mix apples with oranges.

What makes you possibly think that Americans would have as much control over their "partially privatized" SS vs. actually just investing their own hard earned money they generally receive in the form of a "paycheck?" And, since most of my liberal progressive friends have money in the stock market, your argument continues to fall apart at the seams.

Cyclo:

Looks like RexRed revealed his true explanation regarding his first post; the kissing of the arse of the current dim bulb in the White House. How else to describe the repeated talking points from the GOP?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:01 pm
Rex:

Why don't you just address the core issue here of what the Government's role should be in helping Americans in this country? Perhaps if you started there, than you may find more relevance to your aforementioned subject. Otherwise, starting off a thread that mearly demonizes an opposing viewpoint based on specious claims that are totally unrelated to each other will get you nowhere.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:02 pm
Both side are pulling the peoples "pud" RE: Private Accounts.

Some Repugs are quick to tell the people that PRIVATE ACCOUNTS are the answer.

Some Dummycrats are quick to say the opposite.

They both are full of CACA.

I have no opinion on Private Accounts UNTIL someone tells me what the rest of the solution is. Private Accounts MAY be part of a solution, but not the whole solution.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:06 pm
I'm a Dem who invests in mutual funds, so I clearly don't "hate Wall Street." At the same time, I'm not naive about the risks in such investments.

How can Bush assure people that they will come out ahead with their private accounts in stocks? That is patently false. They may come out ahead, sure, or they may not...

And I'm glad I have a safe source of retirement $ in SSI. That is, unless the Bush team manages to screw it up.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:06 pm
Quote:
I have no opinion on Private Accounts UNTIL someone tells me what the rest of the solution is. Private Accounts MAY be part of a solution, but not the whole solution.


Meh. I (and many others) feel that the push for private accounts is a push to do away with SS.

I mean, you don't break a horse by jumping on his back right away and expect him to act all docile. You do it a little at a time. You get the horse used to the idea. You get him used to your smell. You convince the horse that it's okay to put a bridle on him.

Same thing here.

I don't have a problem with personal accounts (My IRA I started last year, for example), just personal accounts that are funded using Social Security funds.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:08 pm
Um, woiyo, if you have no opinion, than why are you telling us that both Repugs and Dummycrats are full of CACA? Laughing

Last I heard, such a statement generally equates to an "opinion..."

Or maybe you could expand a little more on this subject; WHY are both Repugs and Dummycrats full of CACA?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:11 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
I have no opinion on Private Accounts UNTIL someone tells me what the rest of the solution is. Private Accounts MAY be part of a solution, but not the whole solution.


Meh. I (and many others) feel that the push for private accounts is a push to do away with SS.

I mean, you don't break a horse by jumping on his back right away and expect him to act all docile. You do it a little at a time. You get the horse used to the idea. You get him used to your smell. You convince the horse that it's okay to put a bridle on him.

Same thing here.

I don't have a problem with personal accounts (My IRA I started last year, for example), just personal accounts that are funded using Social Security funds.

Cycloptichorn


I'm still wondering why neoconservatives argue one second that it's our hard earned money and we can do whatever we want with it, and then turn around and tell us to trust the government in overhauling SS via private accounts in which we'd have less control over...
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:15 pm
Quote:
I have no opinion on Private Accounts


Quote:
Private Accounts MAY be part of a solution


This was such a substantive debate until you showed up, woiyo...
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:25 pm
Dookie,

You do not have the capability to debate this subject from an objective perspective.

Anyone who will suggest that PRIVATE ACCOUNTS is a good thing or bad thing is totally bowing to partisen tactics.

What OTHER options have our wonderful politicians come up with and why are you not including them in your priceless little debate?

Dems suggest RAISE RETIREMENT AGE. Well, that is a tax increase by suggesting either people work longer or take a reduced benefit.

Some suggest reduce the benefit. See above.

Some suggest RAISE THE CAP - See Tax Increase.

Some of these may be necessary AND PRIVATE ACCOUNTS may be a way to "make up the difference". Yet I am unconvinced.

What is your idea Dookie?? Got one??
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:29 pm
Re: Do the Dems hate Wall Street?
RexRed wrote:
Why is it so wrong that Americans invest into their own economy through partial privatization of social security? The dems are so against Wall Street having any kind of boost. Yet they think the American people should trust them with the economy?


I think what Red was getting at here is that with private accounts people will get to invest 4% of what used to go to SS and that would be better than having it in the hands of the government. This is not correct. The current proposition as I understand it, is that the government will still have that 4% in its hands, but GOVERNMENT will invest it in the stock market for you based on a short list of possible funds.

I have no clue what Red is saying about Dems being aginst any kind of Wall Street boost. I will speak for myself and say that yes, I'm against putting public funds in the hands of greedy corporate types that have recently caused havoc with their employee funds... Imagine what they could do with Grandma's money. Wall Street is FOR PROFIT! The government (obviously!) is not.

"Yet, they think the American people should trust them..." Um, Dems aren't in control of the funds. When they were, the budget was balanced and there was actually a large surplus.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:34 pm
I have one, Woiyo, from the permanent thread on SS:

Pay the defecits off today. The national defecit is the biggest threat to SS there is. If we could have a balanced budget, we could easily fund SS for quite a long time.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 02:58 pm
woiyo wrote:
Dookie,

You do not have the capability to debate this subject from an objective perspective.


Neither do you, as you seem to not have an opinion (according to you, that is...)

Quote:
Anyone who will suggest that PRIVATE ACCOUNTS is a good thing or bad thing is totally bowing to partisen tactics.


To an extent, I agree. Politicians find it more and more necessary to paint things in black and white. So do the 527's, like USANext, a Republican conservatie site, who say that the AARP is against our troops but for gay marriage, and that we shouldn't take their arguments against privatization seriously regarding SS.

Quote:
What OTHER options have our wonderful politicians come up with and why are you not including them in your priceless little debate?


Um, this is actually Rex's private little debate, not mine. But here are just a few links to stir some thought...

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/28/BUG46B1PK21.DTL

http://www.socsec.org/

Quote:
Dems suggest RAISE RETIREMENT AGE. Well, that is a tax increase by suggesting either people work longer or take a reduced benefit.


And when Bush raises veteran's fees by hundreds of dollars for soldiers returning home from the Iraq war, then that would be...?" Rolling Eyes

Quote:
Some suggest reduce the benefit. See above.


Which would be political suicide, IMO. But Bush's plan calls for that anyway (up to 40%) to make way for his personal accounts.

Quote:
Some suggest RAISE THE CAP - See Tax Increase.


Perhaps a better angle to look at, as it taxes those who SHOULD be taxed; the filthy rich.

Quote:
Some of these may be necessary AND PRIVATE ACCOUNTS may be a way to "make up the difference". Yet I am unconvinced.


Well, then, why didn't you say so? Waddya know? You've got an opinion.

Why not keep the insults to yourself and we can all be more objective about this.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 03:45 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
WHAT?!!?!

That made even less sense than your first post! But let's see if I can figure it out.

Quote:
Dems and some repubs are against privatization which has only one motive to me. To disinherit the people and to keep government's controlling power over our lives.


I suppose if you asked them why they are against privatization, they would give you a lot of reasons besides 'keeping gv't controlling our lives.' Look at Social Security this way: even though you are against it, Rex, if you were in a terrible accident, or your family was all killed, or a flood washed away everything you had, or if you invested badly and lost all your money, or you got cancer and had to spend all your investments just to stay alive, there would still be some money sitting around to help you out, no matter what. And that's gov't control of our lives?

Quote:
We are paying our own interest when the government is in control of "the bank"... I cannot see any other reasoning.


?? I don't understand this at all.

Quote:
Bush has got it right. I believe Bush will bring America to a more competitive environment in the work place through privatization. This will give America an edge in education, technology manufacturing etc.


I'd like you to explain how Privatization of Social Security will lead to a more competetive environment in the workplace (and why is a more competitive environment a good thing? be specific, plz). Why will America get an 'edge' in education, technology, and manufacturing (of all things) through these SS reforms that Bush wants to push through?



I'm not trying to badger ya; I really don't see the connections you are trying to make here between Social Security, gov't control of one's life, and increases in manufacturing and technology.

Cycloptichorn


Disability is not necessarily social security...

Also, I pay taxes and this tax money goes into fund the government in general sort of way. The government pays the interest on my social security so technically I am paying the taxes to the government so they can pay the interest on my money. Bad form...

When people have more control over their money... i.e. a choice of long term investment and passing this commodity down to siblings. Then this becomes a competitive element to the workplace and thus results in more productivity. Right now with the current system this is an "invisible" account to most uneducated people paying into it.

The government would only there to see that you do not within reason completely squander your future account and that after you are gone that the account is dispensed of according to your wishes.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 03:48 pm
RexRed, the left hates people that have money. Any money. That means they didn't share it with those less fortunate, and there will always be less fortunate.

It doesn't matter how hard you worked or what you sacrificed, if you have it, they want it for social programs. It's like the dems are really the party of the lazy. They want the government to do everything for them and feel they are entitled to it. Social Security is nothing more than another entitlement for them.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 03:55 pm
Quote:
It doesn't matter how hard you worked or what you sacrificed, if you have it, they want it for social programs. It's like the dems are really the party of the lazy. They want the government to do everything for them and feel they are entitled to it. Social Security is nothing more than another entitlement for them.


I guarantee that, no matter how hard you work, you never have worked harder than some of the poorest people in the country have just to survive. Why do you deserve more than them? Because of the system that is set up to favor you, regardless of how much actual hard work you did.

We just want to balance that out a little.

The thing that gets me, is that you conservatives apparently don't give a damn about anything but your money.

Rex,

You didn't answer any of my questions about your non-sensical post. How does privatization help us advance in Manufacturing, specifically? Also, this:

Quote:
When people have more control over their money... i.e. a choice of long term investment and passing this commodity down to siblings. Then this becomes a competitive element to the workplace and thus results in more productivity. Right now with the current system this is an "invisible" account to most uneducated people paying into it.


Doesn't make any sense either. How exactly are private accounts going to become a 'competitive element in the workplace' that results in more productivity? Be specific.

You are throwing around a lot of RWNM talking points without understanding what they mean...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 8 Mar, 2005 03:58 pm
McGentrix wrote:
RexRed, the left hates people that have money. Any money. That means they didn't share it with those less fortunate, and there will always be less fortunate.

It doesn't matter how hard you worked or what you sacrificed, if you have it, they want it for social programs. It's like the dems are really the party of the lazy. They want the government to do everything for them and feel they are entitled to it. Social Security is nothing more than another entitlement for them.


I can see what you are saying but I also believe that some elements of society are "lazy" for reasonable reasons if that can be... Be it that they are, to borrow a phrase, "crippled inside" or what ever it is that struck them down in their prime and humbled them before their peers. Something for the doctors to study and try and correct.

I can understand the left in this instance and they need to be assured that the needs of society will be properly met. Much of their base resides in that sector of society. Yet it can truly be argued that the current SS system is vanishing before our eyes.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
TEA PARTY TO AMERICA: NOW WHAT?! - Discussion by farmerman
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Do the Dems hate Wall Street?
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 05/14/2024 at 10:31:54