Thank you, thank you . . . faith offerings (nothing smaller than $20 bills, please) may be sent to me in care of this web site . . .
How about I send you an envelope of horse****, since you love to write so much of it?
I'll even wrap it in a pretty bow for you, to symbolize how you consistently wrap your horse**** arguments in unnecessarily complicated and lengthy statements that themselves are prime examples of the common adverbial overusage.
Most of the time evolution takes place through insertion.
thunder_runner32 wrote:What is the great scientific evidence0 (FACT) that contradicts the bible?
Lots of things, but one particularly salient one, I think, is lack of geological evidence of a single, great, worldwide flood. Farmerman knows more about this than I do.
Brandon9000 wrote:thunder_runner32 wrote:What is the great scientific evidence0 (FACT) that contradicts the bible?
Lots of things, but one particularly salient one, I think, is lack of geological evidence of a single, great, worldwide flood. Farmerman knows more about this than I do.
Haven't we been over this before? Do I
really have to dig back through this thread to find my uber-long post about all of the geological evidence pointing to a flood? Judas Priest, give me a break here. I's gots kids ta feed.
Rex the Wonder Squirrel wrote:Brandon9000 wrote:thunder_runner32 wrote:What is the great scientific evidence0 (FACT) that contradicts the bible?
Lots of things, but one particularly salient one, I think, is lack of geological evidence of a single, great, worldwide flood. Farmerman knows more about this than I do.
Haven't we been over this before? Do I
really have to dig back through this thread to find my uber-long post about all of the geological evidence pointing to a flood? Judas Priest, give me a break here. I's gots kids ta feed.
I should think a link would be sufficient.
Here you go
It's really interesting because you said that you'd reply to it, but then you never did. Maybe you'll have another go at it?
Rex the Wonder Squirrel wrote:Here you go
It's really interesting because you said that you'd reply to it, but then you never did. Maybe you'll have another go at it?
I decided that farmerman's reply was better than I could do.
I guess incertion is just old news...Now everyone wants DNA intervention.
Algis.Kemezys wrote:I guess incertion is just old news...Now everyone wants DNA intervention.
I don't know what "DNA intervention" is, but I know a number of people who would seem to need it very badly.
Brandon9000 wrote:I don't know what "DNA intervention" is, but I know a number of people who would seem to need it very badly.
It's where you don't use your wiener to make a baby. You know, like Michael Jackson had done.
Namely ? Here is your chance...
Now this is the part where the rap breaks down
The room gets tense, nobody makes a sound . . .
Quote: Also, recent catastrophes show that violent events like the flood described in Genesis could form many rock layers very quickly. The Mount St. Helens eruption in Washington state produced 25 feet of finely layered sediment in a single afternoon ! And a rapidly pumped sand slurry was observed to deposit 3 to 4 feet of fine layers on a beach over an area the size of a football field. Sedimentation experiments by the creationist Guy Berthault, working with non-creationists, have shown that fine layers can form by a self-sorting mechanism during the settling of differently sized particles.
In one of Berthault's experiments, finely layered sandstone and diatomite rocks were broken into their constituent particles, and allowed to settle under running water at various speeds. It was found that the same layer thicknesses were reproduced, regardless of flow rate. This suggests that the original rock was produced by a similar self-sorting mechanism, followed by ce ementing. of the particles together.
You may find this satisfying rex the, but youve forgotten that Mt St Helens deposits were thick only a few miles surrounding the volcano, and there are minute layers (< 2 cm) thick that cover a few states. We have sedimentological layers (like the Chatanooga shale) which are 4 states wide and 20000 ft thick representing deep ocean sediments in the middle of a now mountain range (Appalachians) adjacent to this Formation are thiick layers of limestone (very hard rock. These layers are then covered by significant layers of beach type sand deposits(also hardened into rock) , more limestones , coal, then sandstones again. Weve got close to 100000 ft thick of hard indurated sediments each with a different deposition scheme and structural imprint (meaning tectonic forces were acting from different poles at successively younger deposits)
While we can see deposits of cataclysmic events (earthslides, volcanoes, tsunamis, etc etc) all over, they are not the stratigraphic record, they are anomalies. look at the entire planet and discern the total variety of continental sized sediment masses that only indicate boring shallow marine conditions, basins depositing,redeposition of sediment over exhumed older deposits. Uniformitarianism works in a way that we can predict what well find in areas where weve never done geologic work. I know that strict Creationists abhor anything geologic that can be interpreted and then used to predict as a tool. You want "Magical Mystery Tour" and "Deity Deposits"
There was no worldwide flood. Im amazed that Duane is still pushing this crap since most scientists stipulate to the historical significance of the Gilgamesh legends relating to either the peri glacial sea rise that affected the Caspian over 8000 years ago, or the periodic floods of the Tigris/Euphrates valleys. Periglacial melt water in post glacial times has left ample evidence as large gravel and sand deposits and large levees in river systems from US to Asia. As the glaciers melted they le3ft deposits, often as wide as half the state of Delaware. There could have been people who started the "flood myths" at about those times. However, there are no fluvial deposits or "sea rise covering major parts of continents any time in the last 65 million years. Even post Cretaceous prograding sequences were easily seen to be associated with continental drift. And even these only covered a third of the area , say between Virginia to Massachussetts.
Youve gotta be more critical of what you beleieve, since the evidence (objectively derived by some very competent Jesuit geologists, I might add) is all over.
thunder_runner32 wrote:Quote:What the heck are you talking about? Where did I say that people have to listen to me? I listen to what the Bible says and, I did not write the book. I have said that people need to "study" the scriptures and let the scriptures interpret themselves... I also presented some principles on "how" to let the word "interpret itself"...
If you think you are right about something in the Bible then give me chapter and verse... I did not say that if words are missing then you only just listen to me, because only I know the truth...
Rex, they never let the bible "interpret itself" instead they go into it with bias, and they look for error...its hilarious because if this was how they looked at every book, they would never learn anything.
Yes, they assume "God" would make a book full of contradictions... So they do not "study" it, they inject their own imperfection rather than seek it's innate perfection. They treat the word with sloth and predisposition. They doubt the literal and cloud the figurative with error... Then they make wild assumptions about God and expect people to bow their knees... They cut God from creation when they have no scientific proof that this is the case... They know how to study Darwin but they throw away their principles of research when they take a look at the scriptures. They quote their friends rather than what the Bible says.. They don't know the Bible... so they cannot "know" God...
Jeremiah 2:13
For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, and hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.
the H2O thing rings true eh?
farmerman wrote:Quote: Also, recent catastrophes show that violent events like the flood described in Genesis could form many rock layers very quickly. The Mount St. Helens eruption in Washington state produced 25 feet of finely layered sediment in a single afternoon ! And a rapidly pumped sand slurry was observed to deposit 3 to 4 feet of fine layers on a beach over an area the size of a football field. Sedimentation experiments by the creationist Guy Berthault, working with non-creationists, have shown that fine layers can form by a self-sorting mechanism during the settling of differently sized particles.
In one of Berthault's experiments, finely layered sandstone and diatomite rocks were broken into their constituent particles, and allowed to settle under running water at various speeds. It was found that the same layer thicknesses were reproduced, regardless of flow rate. This suggests that the original rock was produced by a similar self-sorting mechanism, followed by ce ementing. of the particles together.
You may find this satisfying rex the, but youve forgotten that Mt St Helens deposits were thick only a few miles surrounding the volcano, and there are minute layers (< 2 cm) thick that cover a few states. We have sedimentological layers (like the Chatanooga shale) which are 4 states wide and 20000 ft thick representing deep ocean sediments in the middle of a now mountain range (Appalachians) adjacent to this Formation are thiick layers of limestone (very hard rock. These layers are then covered by significant layers of beach type sand deposits(also hardened into rock) , more limestones , coal, then sandstones again. Weve got close to 100000 ft thick of hard indurated sediments each with a different deposition scheme and structural imprint (meaning tectonic forces were acting from different poles at successively younger deposits)
While we can see deposits of cataclysmic events (earthslides, volcanoes, tsunamis, etc etc) all over, they are not the stratigraphic record, they are anomalies. look at the entire planet and discern the total variety of continental sized sediment masses that only indicate boring shallow marine conditions, basins depositing,redeposition of sediment over exhumed older deposits. Uniformitarianism works in a way that we can predict what well find in areas where weve never done geologic work. I know that strict Creationists abhor anything geologic that can be interpreted and then used to predict as a tool. You want "Magical Mystery Tour" and "Deity Deposits"
There was no worldwide flood. Im amazed that Duane is still pushing this crap since most scientists stipulate to the historical significance of the Gilgamesh legends relating to either the peri glacial sea rise that affected the Caspian over 8000 years ago, or the periodic floods of the Tigris/Euphrates valleys. Periglacial melt water in post glacial times has left ample evidence as large gravel and sand deposits and large levees in river systems from US to Asia. As the glaciers melted they le3ft deposits, often as wide as half the state of Delaware. There could have been people who started the "flood myths" at about those times. However, there are no fluvial deposits or "sea rise covering major parts of continents any time in the last 65 million years. Even post Cretaceous prograding sequences were easily seen to be associated with continental drift. And even these only covered a third of the area , say between Virginia to Massachussetts.
Youve gotta be more critical of what you beleieve, since the evidence (objectively derived by some very competent Jesuit geologists, I might add) is all over.
I have to agree with FM that the Bible is not talking about a global flood but a flood that was a localized flood in the region of Turkey...
But I also believe that the flood of Noah was to teach us not to worship animals, elements and images (ourselves) as Gods but to recognize the invisible one true God...
Noah's son's went on to found the first cities in Turkey and Persia. They broke every rule known to Noah... So we have Noah as a stirling example of a human in harmony with all spheres of life and spirituality...
If we did not have the story of Noah we would only have the story of paganism surviving from Noah's sons... (i.e. Babylon, Norse, Greek, Egyptian, Roman...) Noah is the only surviving story of monotheism from ancient antiquities...
So there was a "flood" (polytheism) and Noah built an "ark" (monotheism) and the story survived thousands of years...
So I do not find the physical aspect of a global flood as important as the message that there is
one God...
I know I said I have nothing more to say on evolutionism and I don't.
This is actually more to say on the Biblical account of the flood. Does the following sound familiar?
Quote:A recurring myth though out the whole of the Middle East is that is that of a great flood or deluge. Indeed the theme is discovered as far as Western Europe and India.
According to the Babylonian version the flood is caused by the great storm god Enlil to punish mankind. In a city called Shuruppak on the river Euphrates there lived a man called Uta-Napishtim. He was the favourite of Ea, the god of wisdom and was warned by the god. Uta-Napishtim built himself a great boat 120 cubits high and the same wide. He took inside it his family, many craftsmen and a great stock of food. The pilot was called Puzur-Bel.
For six days and six nights it rained. The sun was blocked out. Even the gods were frightened and all men except Uta-Napishtim were destroyed. The gods were distraught at man's destruction. The boat of Uta-Napishtim came to rest on Mount Nisir. On the seventh day of their resting on Mount Nisir he sent out a dove, which finding no place to land, returned and then he sent out a raven which did not return so he knew it was safe.
When he went out of his boat he made a sacrifice to the gods. The goddess Ishtar came and created a rainbow: her necklace. When Enlil discovered that Uta-Napishtim had escaped him he was furious and would have killed him. Ea persuaded Enlil that complete destruction of mankind was wrong. He said that only the men who had done wrong should be killed and not all mankind. Enlil was persuaded but still turned Uta-Napishtim into a god so that no man had escaped him.
The Mesopotamian stories contain many similarities to the biblical account. The flood marks a turning point in primeval history. It is brought on by divine decision as a punishment for man's sins against the gods. One man, the favorite of a god, is singled out for salvation. To save his family and representatives of all living creatures, he is to build a vessel caulked inside and out with pitch. The flood results with a rainstorm. After the devastation of the flood, the vessel comes to rest on a mountain peak. Birds are dispatched to discover whether dry land has appeared. When the hero leaves the boat he offers a sacrifice. The gods express their sorrow over what has happened. There are many other similarities that seem to resemble one another in certain general details but there are clear and unmistakable differences throughout.
Source:
http://www.bible-history.com/babylonia/BabyloniaBabylonian_Myth_of_the_Flood.htm
Also, take a look at this:
http://cc.usu.edu/~fath6/flood.htm
A very interesting read, if nothing else.
Noone ever answered this in the other thread, but what did the first eyes look like? Like the first eyeballs? How did little by little changes create what they are now?
Something I heard on my first trip to Egypt was the connection of Isis to Mary. Decide for yourself.
Taken from a search web site:
"Here it is apparent that the worship of the Mother Goddess, Virgo, under the appellation of Isis, spread from Egypt into Israel and from Israel to the centers of the Roman Empire:
"The cult of Isis was widespread in the Egypt of the dynastic period. From Egypt it spread northwards to Phoenicia, Syria and Palestine; to Asia Minor; to Cyprus, Rhodes, Crete, Samos and other islands in the Aegean; to many parts of mainland Greece - Corinth, Argos and Thessaly amongst them; to Malta and Sicily; and, finally, to Rome. In the first century BC, Isis was perhaps the most popular goddess in the Eternal City, from which her cult spread to the furthest limits of the Roman Empire, including Britain: her only rival was Mithras. - (920)
And so, the worship of the Virgin Mary in the Roman Catholic Church, along with the entire body of Catholic tradition, can be traced to the worship of Isis in Egypt. {See: Mystery Babylon the Great: Catholic or Jewish?}
"Immaculate is our Lady Isis...the very terms applied afterwards to that personage (the Virgin Mary) who succeeded to her form, titles, symbols, rites, and ceremonies... Thus, her devotees carried into the new priesthood the former badges of their profession, the obligation to celibacy, the tonsure, and the surplice, omitting, unfortunately, the frequent ablutions prescribed by the ancient creed. The 'Black Virgins', so highly reverenced in certain French cathedrals...proved, when at last critically examined, basalt figures of Isis!'" (921)
In 412 A.D., Cyril of Alexandria became the Bishop of Alexandria. H.P. Blavatsky wrote in Isis Unveiled: "...Cyril, the Bishop of Alexandria, had openly embraced the cause of Isis, the Egyptian goddess, and had anthropomorphized her into Mary, the mother of God..." (195:41, Vol.II) Cyril wrote passionately and voluminously against the Nestorian heresy, and was largely instrumental in having it condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431."
