farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:13 am
Quote:
I know your ideas FM above are on evolution but I just thought that I might add that the change in our nations policies of evolution are not being attacked by the religious right this time but by quantum physicists.. Because the physicists are on an atomic level talking about intelligent design things in two places at once etc... they have trumped the evolution debate and they have not disproved relative physics but they have expanded it to include that there is intelligent design


Im not sure what youre getting at here also, but youre just wrong. The amicus brief submitted to the USSC in 1987 re creationism in Louisiana schools included about 15 physicists and 12 physical chemists who, as representatives of themselves sought to have Creationism pulled from Louisianas HS curriculum. I think you are being persuaded by the ICR "scientists" who, after listing their past accomplishments , have lent their PhDs to the Creation camp. Nobody has "trumped" anyone. Just because Im a damn good geologist doesnt confer any credibility to my opinions in , organic chemistry.
Olease dont present your suppositions as truth or you will be called on it.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:39 am
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
Most say this tiny building block of the physical world is a particle and a wave. This alone should make one wonder... So they make "theories" about sub atomic particles. But even the neutron of an atom as dense as it is is still mostly vacuum. In the beginning was vacuum... So are we made of vacuum? Some argue that the smallest possible part of existence is possibility... The atom exists out of all possibilities. So any atom at any given time has many possibilities too "all in the same place at the same time"... [/QUOTE
You been hittin the Maple Syrup again? I dont think I can follow you in your logic here. Bring it down to my level, slow and clear.[/quote]

No maple syrup but decaf tea and honey... I am not really sure that I can explain what quantum physicists are trying to put forth... I thought that some of you here could enlighten the subject a bit more... I wrote that last reply to try and explain it the way I think they are trying to say things but I am interested in what others have to say about it...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 10:54 am
farmerman wrote:
Quote:
I know your ideas FM above are on evolution but I just thought that I might add that the change in our nations policies of evolution are not being attacked by the religious right this time but by quantum physicists.. Because the physicists are on an atomic level talking about intelligent design things in two places at once etc... they have trumped the evolution debate and they have not disproved relative physics but they have expanded it to include that there is intelligent design


Im not sure what youre getting at here also, but youre just wrong. The amicus brief submitted to the USSC in 1987 re creationism in Louisiana schools included about 15 physicists and 12 physical chemists who, as representatives of themselves sought to have Creationism pulled from Louisianas HS curriculum. I think you are being persuaded by the ICR "scientists" who, after listing their past accomplishments , have lent their PhDs to the Creation camp. Nobody has "trumped" anyone. Just because Im a damn good geologist doesnt confer any credibility to my opinions in , organic chemistry.
Olease dont present your suppositions as truth or you will be called on it.


I am not saying the creationists are not trying to re-establish creation in schools but I am saying that now they have quantum physicists behind them fueling the new look at the debate.

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations.. But they take a more lose view of God than Christians. They believe God is in us where Christians believe that God is outside of us creating us... I cannot see why we cannot believe both...

God is outside of us creating realities and inside of us creating realities.

The ghost in the machinery of life the ultimate observer...

Genesis 1:2b
...And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Comment:
Humans are comprised of, isn't it ninety percent water?

Why haven't humans learned how to simulate artificial intelligence? Because the laws of physics have told them it is not possible... so they have not really looked. But if they can take their machines and tap into this observer of quantum physics they can discover the innate intelligence and learning possibilities in anything... That all things are connected and all things have possibilities and at the same time form their own distinct realities...
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 11:42 am
Re: Evolution? How?
vol_fan06 wrote:
What makes Evolution so believable. Just because a bunch of scientists tell you it is. It is a theory, an idea, a guess. Why?


There is so much erudition in this thread, my plebeian mind can't keep up. I would like to answer vol, however, with the observation that many people ascribe to the evolutionary hypothesis because of its affected erudition. It has the added advantage of granting freedom from any obligation one might feel to a creator. Present company excepted, of course.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 11:59 am
Re: Evolution? How?
neologist wrote:
vol_fan06 wrote:
What makes Evolution so believable. Just because a bunch of scientists tell you it is. It is a theory, an idea, a guess. Why?


There is so much erudition in this thread, my plebeian mind can't keep up. I would like to answer vol, however, with the observation that many people ascribe to the evolutionary hypothesis because of its affected erudition. It has the added advantage of granting freedom from any obligation one might feel to a creator. Present company excepted, of course.


The Theory of Evolution that those nasty evolustionists are fantasizing about:

1. In large populations over long periods of time, those genes which confer a survival advantage tend to dominate the gene pool.
2. Mutation serves as a mechanism for the introduction of new traits into the gene pool.

How would this not be occurring? It is in-your-face visible for any species that has quick generations, e.g. bacteria.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 12:06 pm
Re: Evolution? How?
neologist wrote:
vol_fan06 wrote:
What makes Evolution so believable. Just because a bunch of scientists tell you it is. It is a theory, an idea, a guess. Why?


There is so much erudition in this thread, my plebeian mind can't keep up. I would like to answer vol, however, with the observation that many people ascribe to the evolutionary hypothesis because of its affected erudition. It has the added advantage of granting freedom from any obligation one might feel to a creator. Present company excepted, of course.


Speaking of lightning bolts I like your lightning avatar neo...

Did lightning start life to evolve on the earth or was lightning only another part of possibility?

It is lightning in our minds that connects our thoughts and projects holographic images...

Light and electricity have a great role in life and physics in general... it is the common thread that links the physical with the organic...
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 12:25 pm
Re: Evolution? How?
Brandon9000 wrote:

The Theory of Evolution that those nasty evolustionists are fantasizing about:


Gollywhoppers guys! I said 'present company excepted.' Sniff!
RexRed wrote:
Speaking of lightning bolts I like your lightning avatar neo...

Did lightning start life to evolve on the earth or was lightning only another part of possibility?


Lightning is neato looking, don't you think? I hate it when it hits my head, though.

I've started saving a few images HERE All you need to do to grab an image is to right click and 'save as' in your picture file. The you can upload it to any site you want.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 12:50 pm
Re: Evolution? How?
neologist wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:

The Theory of Evolution that those nasty evolustionists are fantasizing about:


Gollywhoppers guys! I said 'present company excepted.' Sniff!
RexRed wrote:
Speaking of lightning bolts I like your lightning avatar neo...

Did lightning start life to evolve on the earth or was lightning only another part of possibility?


Lightning is neato looking, don't you think? I hate it when it hits my head, though.

I've started saving a few images HERE All you need to do to grab an image is to right click and 'save as' in your picture file. The you can upload it to any site you want.


Those are among the best avatars I have seen... I grabbed a bunch of them... the baseball one doesn't move... Did you make any of them? There is a PC program called "gif animator" that I have used that makes it kind of easy to make your own avatars... whoever made these has it definitly down... http://pics.homere.jmsp.net/t_24/64x64/matrix.gif
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 01:05 pm
Re: Evolution? How?
RexRed wrote:
Those are among the best avatars I have seen... I grabbed a bunch of them... the baseball one doesn't move... Did you make any of them? There is a PC program called "gif animator" that I have used that makes it kind of easy to make your own avatars... whoever made these has it definitly down... http://pics.homere.jmsp.net/t_24/64x64/matrix.gif
Actually, they just evolved by chance Laughing gif animator sounds like a good program, I think I'll check it out. The baseball image is one I'm developing for my site GrandSalami.Com which I hope to make into a Seattle Mariners forum.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 02:42 pm
Re: Evolution? How?
neologist wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Those are among the best avatars I have seen... I grabbed a bunch of them... the baseball one doesn't move... Did you make any of them? There is a PC program called "gif animator" that I have used that makes it kind of easy to make your own avatars... whoever made these has it definitly down... http://pics.homere.jmsp.net/t_24/64x64/matrix.gif
Actually, they just evolved by chance Laughing gif animator sounds like a good program, I think I'll check it out. The baseball image is one I'm developing for my site GrandSalami.Com which I hope to make into a Seattle Mariners forum.


Maybe you could take the still picture of my avatar the sailboats and have them move around and cause ripples on the water... I have tried but not been able to come up with anything... Idea
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 03:07 pm
RexRed wrote:

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations..

Why would God choose such ill informed agents on Earth? I have taken and passed many quantum physics classes and there is no inherent tie-in whatever with religion. Quantum physicists are people who use the Schrodinger wave equation or, relativistically, the Dirac equation. Here is a brief introduction. See if you can find a statement that "quantum physicists believe that God needs revision" or anything else about God. I wish you would not blurt these things out without first learning something about them.

Intro to Quantum Physics
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 04:32 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations..

Why would God choose such ill informed agents on Earth? I have taken and passed many quantum physics classes and there is no inherent tie-in whatever with religion. Quantum physicists are people who use the Schrodinger wave equation or, relativistically, the Dirac equation. Here is a brief introduction. See if you can find a statement that "quantum physicists believe that God needs revision" or anything else about God. I wish you would not blurt these things out without first learning something about them.

Intro to Quantum Physics



http://www.whatthebleep.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 05:12 pm
RexRed wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations..

Why would God choose such ill informed agents on Earth? I have taken and passed many quantum physics classes and there is no inherent tie-in whatever with religion. Quantum physicists are people who use the Schrodinger wave equation or, relativistically, the Dirac equation. Here is a brief introduction. See if you can find a statement that "quantum physicists believe that God needs revision" or anything else about God. I wish you would not blurt these things out without first learning something about them.

Intro to Quantum Physics


http://www.whatthebleep.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics

Do you want me to guess your argument? Blink your eyes if that's correct.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 05:40 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations..

Why would God choose such ill informed agents on Earth? I have taken and passed many quantum physics classes and there is no inherent tie-in whatever with religion. Quantum physicists are people who use the Schrodinger wave equation or, relativistically, the Dirac equation. Here is a brief introduction. See if you can find a statement that "quantum physicists believe that God needs revision" or anything else about God. I wish you would not blurt these things out without first learning something about them.

Intro to Quantum Physics


http://www.whatthebleep.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_physics

Do you want me to guess your argument? Blink your eyes if that's correct.


I posted the websites to give you some insight into my argument... I do not pretend to know these answers but I think quantum mechanics is one step closer... It is just not quantum mechanics alone but the thought that quantum mechanics is superimposed over the atomic, biological, organic, living, metaphysical, spiritual... that there is suddenly a unity of all things and a common connection to how we observe and glean from all possible conditions the right condition. We can use a substrate of the atomic to perceive with in the biological... The spirit in all things that acts as intelligence and can observe in each particular place and time...

If light is the fastest thing in our solar system and light is comprised of two distinct entities then it stands to reason that there are smaller constituents in the universe that can exist in everything and where all existence is a result of this symbiotic relationship...

Like xx and xy ...

x made y but x is outside of y and inside of y at the same time...

If the self is intangible how can we know anything... But if the self is intelligence itself then we are knowing...
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:03 pm
RexRed wrote:
...If light is the fastest thing in our solar system...

Except for the small possibility that tachyons exist, light in vacuum is the fastest thing in existence.

RexRed wrote:
...and light is comprised of two distinct entities...

Sorry, I don't follow. What two entities?

RexRed wrote:
...then it stands to reason that there are smaller constituents in the universe that can exist in everything and where all existence is a result of this symbiotic relationship...

Like xx and xy ...

x made y but x is outside of y and inside of y at the same time...

People who attempt to discover the detailed behavior of the universe without mathematical derivation have a rather poor track record. Oh, but thanks for transcending the work of generations of scientists in a few sentences.
0 Replies
 
patiodog
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 06:53 pm
[quote]The Classification of Dogs has changed recently. Domestic dogs are now classified as Canis Lupus Familiaris, and Dingo's are Canis Lupus Dingo. [/quote]

d'oh!
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 07:59 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:

Quantum physicists believe God needs revision just as they have revised physical science... So they are only behind Christians when the doctrine conforms to their mathematical equations..

Why would God choose such ill informed agents on Earth? I have taken and passed many quantum physics classes and there is no inherent tie-in whatever with religion. Quantum physicists are people who use the Schrodinger wave equation or, relativistically, the Dirac equation. Here is a brief introduction. See if you can find a statement that "quantum physicists believe that God needs revision" or anything else about God. I wish you would not blurt these things out without first learning something about them.

Intro to Quantum Physics


The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mystical. It is the source of all true art and science.
- Albert Einstein

All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them.
- Galileo Galilei

What we are looking for is what is looking.
- St. Francis of Assisi

I can see, and that is why I can be happy, in what you call the dark, but which to me is golden. I can see a God-made world, not a manmade world.
- Helen Keller

What lies behind us and what lies before us are small matters to what lies within us.
- Ralph Waldo Emerson

Whoever talks about Planck's constant and does not feel at least a little giddy obviously doesn't appreciate what he is talking about.
- Niels Bohr (quoted by Teller: see French & Kennedy 1985, p.182)

If quantum mechanics hasn't profoundly shocked you, you haven't understood it yet.
- Niels Bohr

Few people are capable of expressing with equanimity opinions which differ from the prejudices of their social environment. Most people are even incapable of forming such opinions.
- Albert Einstein

The power of Thought, the magic of the Mind!
- Lord Byron

Consciousness is the basis of all life and the field of all possibilities. Its nature is to expand and unfold its full potential. The impulse to evolve is thus inherent in the very nature of life.
- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

There is no reality in the absence of observation.
- The Copenhagen Interpretation of Quantum Mechanics

Knowledge is structured in consciousness. The process of education takes place in the field of consciousness; the prerequisite to complete education is therefore the full development of consciousness -- enlightenment. Knowledge is not the basis of enlightenment, enlightenment is the basis of knowledge.
- Maharishi Mahesh Yogi

As far as we can discern, the sole purpose of existence is to kindle a light in the darkness of being.
- Carl Jung

Who looks outside, dreams; who looks inside, awakes.
- Carl Gustav Jung

There are grounds for cautious optimism that we may now be near the end of the search for the ultimate laws of nature.
- Stephen W. Hawking

Not only does God play dice, but... he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen.
- Stephen W. Hawking

A hundred times every day I remind myself that my inner and outer life depend upon the labors of other men, living and dead, and that I must exert myself in order to give in the measure as I have received and am still receiving.
- Albert Einstein
0 Replies
 
CodeBorg
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 08:09 pm
It's a different way of looking at things.

For instance: E = mc^2

It's such a nice simple equation with roundedness and inspirational elements that transcend the merely physical truths of our own conscious perceptions. Obviously the truth of the equation is exemplified in the universal application of it's meaning to both small and large, micro and macro, dynamic and static situations that we face in our everyday lives. Matter matters. That is the beauty of science and the formulas we paint. How we can truly understand it's deepest implications and meaning within the context of a spiritual progression and the conscious awareness of the matter, energy, and dynamic bodily fluids that make up our scientific thought.

See!? Mixing science and spirituality really WORKS!!

Isn't it just mystical how amazingly aesthetic a formula can be?

Science creates, transforms, ... and transcends our understanding!
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 08:11 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
...If light is the fastest thing in our solar system...

Except for the small possibility that tachyons exist, light in vacuum is the fastest thing in existence.

RexRed wrote:
...and light is comprised of two distinct entities...

Sorry, I don't follow. What two entities?

RexRed wrote:
...then it stands to reason that there are smaller constituents in the universe that can exist in everything and where all existence is a result of this symbiotic relationship...

Like xx and xy ...

x made y but x is outside of y and inside of y at the same time...

People who attempt to discover the detailed behavior of the universe without mathematical derivation have a rather poor track record. Oh, but thanks for transcending the work of generations of scientists in a few sentences.


XX and XY isn't that intelligent design?

Also, maybe I should have found a better word than entities...
0 Replies
 
mapid145
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Apr, 2005 08:25 pm
creationism...
See its a funny thing that most people forget to realise. Man created religion. God was created by Man. I mean, did they see a cross with the caveman or even the fossil remains of archaic humans. Dr. Russell Humphreys, Evidence for a Young World, said something about the moon. Well in order to understand a bit about how the earth and moon came to be. you would have to understand of how the out most planets in the universe came to be. The Big Bang left a trail of radiation. Was that God who did that?
0 Replies
 
 

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