RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:25 pm
The trait of "love" may be in all things not just humans...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:29 pm
The reason why people cannot study God and derive a set of calculations that are repeatable and testable is because every time you "look" at God we are presented with a new set of realities.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:31 pm
RexRed wrote:
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Quote:

I compliment you on your masterful disproof of the theory of evolution.


Thank you!

Quote:
However, not every trait that we have is a survival trait. Some traits are mere accident, and some are counter-survival traits that evolution has not yet extinguished.


Do we see traits appear out of nowhere today? Think of how wierd it would have been to have the first child that could love. The rest act like monkeys yet the one child tries to show affection.


That is your whole premise that "traits come out of nowhere"... God... You are trying to disprove what you are proving... or am I not seeing something here?

How do bacteria develop resistance to disease? Rather than make yet another evasion, or another colorful, irrelevant statement, or naming it, simply explain to me how this works.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:32 pm
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:33 pm
RexRed wrote:
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...
Re-stating your opinion is not the same as offering support for it. Please answer my previous question.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:47 pm
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:50 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...
Re-stating your opinion is not the same as offering support for it. Please answer my previous question.


I did not know you had posted a question for me... sorry.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:50 pm
RexRed wrote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...

You'd be great as a medical researcher.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 12:59 pm
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...

You'd be great as a medical researcher.


Really... I have never been told that before. My sister is a nurse. Thanks Smile

I was wondering if my answer was too simplistic and I should have talked more about DNA and the environmental changes but I wanted to make it short and really simple.

I think Jesus was right about the miracles thing... Smile
0 Replies
 
anastas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:00 pm
I've delved much into the various physics theories that have been made to explain the universe and why it works the way it does. I can tell you right now that that movie you're talking about,

a) has nothing new and
b) is 99% bullshit.

Example: An atom is in two palces at once. That's very well known. For example, an experiemtnwas carried out proving this. Two slits were cut in a piece of paper and the left slit was covered. Electrons were fired at the paper. One beam opf electrons was detected on the other side of the papar. Next, the other slit was covered, and the first was opened. Beam of electrons, and one beam was again detected - slightly to the left. Next, both slits were opened and one beam of electrons was fired - guess what? Electrons only hit ONE aea on the other side of the paper, not two. When a particle moves from one point to another, it takes ALL POSSIBLE PATHS and combines them into one. The one beam of electrons went through BOTH slits imultaneiously, combined the pths, and reached only one point.

Quote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..


No, it's EVOLUTION. Some bacteria are slightly different from one another. Some have a higher resitance to a disease, others had a lower resistance. The disease hit, and only the bacteria with the slightly higher resitsane survived - the rest died. What happens? you have a population of bacteria that is more resitant to that disease than before. The disease hits again? This time, no bacteria will die because the ones that WOULD have died ALREADY died from the LAST time.

Quote:
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...


That is so wrong that I think it gave me cancer. Why did God do it? Because it's possible. Then why is it possible? Then why does God exists? Did he really create everything because it was possible? How do you know? Doesn't your religion tell you not to question God? And if he reated everything, what existed before the universe was made? Nothing existed, right? If nothing existed, then how did he exist?

The entire idea behind religion and so on contains so many plotholes it is amazing that people still believe in it.

I forgot who it was, someone brought up a great point. We're talking through the internet, you go to doctors when you're sick, you drive your car to work or school or the supermarket or wherever you go, you cehck the time by looking at your watch, you watch TV, you listen to CDs and MP3s. This is all technology. How was technology made? Based on the principles of science.
0 Replies
 
anastas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:03 pm
RexRed wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...

You'd be great as a medical researcher.


Really I have never been told that. My sister is a nurse. Thanks Smile


He was being sarcastic. If he wasn't, he should have been. If the 'process of life and spirit' gets us through disease, I'd like you to convince someone to stop taking his prescription pills, or convince someone with cancer to go run the marathon.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:30 pm
anastas wrote:
I've delved much into the various physics theories that have been made to explain the universe and why it works the way it does. I can tell you right now that that movie you're talking about,

a) has nothing new and
b) is 99% bullshit.

Example: An atom is in two palces at once. That's very well known. For example, an experiemtnwas carried out proving this. Two slits were cut in a piece of paper and the left slit was covered. Electrons were fired at the paper. One beam opf electrons was detected on the other side of the papar. Next, the other slit was covered, and the first was opened. Beam of electrons, and one beam was again detected - slightly to the left. Next, both slits were opened and one beam of electrons was fired - guess what? Electrons only hit ONE aea on the other side of the paper, not two. When a particle moves from one point to another, it takes ALL POSSIBLE PATHS and combines them into one. The one beam of electrons went through BOTH slits imultaneiously, combined the pths, and reached only one point.

Quote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..


No, it's EVOLUTION. Some bacteria are slightly different from one another. Some have a higher resitance to a disease, others had a lower resistance. The disease hit, and only the bacteria with the slightly higher resitsane survived - the rest died. What happens? you have a population of bacteria that is more resitant to that disease than before. The disease hits again? This time, no bacteria will die because the ones that WOULD have died ALREADY died from the LAST time.

Quote:
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...


That is so wrong that I think it gave me cancer. Why did God do it? Because it's possible. Then why is it possible? Then why does God exists? Did he really create everything because it was possible? How do you know? Doesn't your religion tell you not to question God? And if he reated everything, what existed before the universe was made? Nothing existed, right? If nothing existed, then how did he exist?

The entire idea behind religion and so on contains so many plotholes it is amazing that people still believe in it.

I forgot who it was, someone brought up a great point. We're talking through the internet, you go to doctors when you're sick, you drive your car to work or school or the supermarket or wherever you go, you cehck the time by looking at your watch, you watch TV, you listen to CDs and MP3s. This is all technology. How was technology made? Based on the principles of science.


I am not a physicist but there were at least twelve of them in this movie all saying the same thing...

So can an atom be in two places at once? So you are saying that light picks the hole it likes the best? That is giving light some sort of ability to differentiate... I am not sure... I don't think your argument of it is that well expressed but it may be that you are right.

How can you know? When ever they look at these particles they disappear. Where do they go? And then they come back. You are so certain and this is the whole premise behind uncertainty...
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:35 pm
RexRed wrote:
anastas wrote:
I've delved much into the various physics theories that have been made to explain the universe and why it works the way it does. I can tell you right now that that movie you're talking about,

a) has nothing new and
b) is 99% bullshit.

Example: An atom is in two palces at once. That's very well known. For example, an experiemtnwas carried out proving this. Two slits were cut in a piece of paper and the left slit was covered. Electrons were fired at the paper. One beam opf electrons was detected on the other side of the papar. Next, the other slit was covered, and the first was opened. Beam of electrons, and one beam was again detected - slightly to the left. Next, both slits were opened and one beam of electrons was fired - guess what? Electrons only hit ONE aea on the other side of the paper, not two. When a particle moves from one point to another, it takes ALL POSSIBLE PATHS and combines them into one. The one beam of electrons went through BOTH slits imultaneiously, combined the pths, and reached only one point.

Quote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..


No, it's EVOLUTION. Some bacteria are slightly different from one another. Some have a higher resitance to a disease, others had a lower resistance. The disease hit, and only the bacteria with the slightly higher resitsane survived - the rest died. What happens? you have a population of bacteria that is more resitant to that disease than before. The disease hits again? This time, no bacteria will die because the ones that WOULD have died ALREADY died from the LAST time.

Quote:
Why did God do all of this? Because it is possible... I am that I am...


That is so wrong that I think it gave me cancer. Why did God do it? Because it's possible. Then why is it possible? Then why does God exists? Did he really create everything because it was possible? How do you know? Doesn't your religion tell you not to question God? And if he reated everything, what existed before the universe was made? Nothing existed, right? If nothing existed, then how did he exist?

The entire idea behind religion and so on contains so many plotholes it is amazing that people still believe in it.

I forgot who it was, someone brought up a great point. We're talking through the internet, you go to doctors when you're sick, you drive your car to work or school or the supermarket or wherever you go, you cehck the time by looking at your watch, you watch TV, you listen to CDs and MP3s. This is all technology. How was technology made? Based on the principles of science.


I am not a physicist but there were at least twelve of them in this movie all saying the same thing...

So can an atom be in two places at once? So you are saying that light picks the hole it likes the best? That is giving light some sort of ability to differentiate... I am not sure... I don't think your argument of it is that well expressed but it may be that you are right.

How can you know? When ever they look at these particles they disappear. Where do they go? And then they come back. You are so certain and this is the whole premise behind uncertainty...

Well, I'm sorry that I can't give you any cinematic references for my science, but you might want to take an introductory course in quantum mechanics, and I strongly advise you to take a substantial statistics course first. You'll learn about things like the Schroedinger equation, the wavefunction, quantum mechanical tunnelling, the Davisson-Germer experiment, and the Copenhagen Interpretation. On the other hand, you could just say whatever nonsense pops into your head.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 01:40 pm
Wandeljw. Looks like Ill have to pick and choose from here on out in this thread.
The Dover Case is getting more interesting. If one were to drive through the community there are all kinds of wacko signs up . I think, by law, they have to remove the signs each night so the telephone poles look like maces with all the sprung staples.

The ACLU case is warming up to a slow simmer. The people, supervisors of the townships and school district are aligning according to the two camps and its kinda like a made for Tv special , sort of an "Inherit the Wind" York county style. The Baltimore and DC stations are beginning to cover it and its almost funny (almost) how people are quick to be counted on the media when most have no damn idea about what they speak.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 02:00 pm
farmerman,
Thanks for providing "on-the-spot" information from Pennsylvania. The Dover situation is being compared to the old Scopes trial. I am waiting to see whether Dover's evolution controversy will be resolved through the May 17 school board elections.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 02:17 pm
A great irony of John Scopes' predicament was that William Jennings Bryan, the Great Commoner, and a political force with the people, went to Tennessee to prosecute him. Bryan scared hell out the Republicans and the Democrats, because of his broad popular appeal and his reputation for integrity and dedication to "radical" principles. Then he rushes off to prosecute Scopes, with the result that Darrow demolishes him.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 02:50 pm
anastas wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...

You'd be great as a medical researcher.


Really I have never been told that. My sister is a nurse. Thanks Smile


He was being sarcastic. If he wasn't, he should have been. If the 'process of life and spirit' gets us through disease, I'd like you to convince someone to stop taking his prescription pills, or convince someone with cancer to go run the marathon.


Or maybe science has trained the mind to not make use of it's own curative abilities.

My sister helped me with this one...

The history of antibiotic resistant bacteria coming from the over medicating of cows in particular in Europe to prevent diseases in their stock... So what happen is, bacteria that the cows have, becomes resistant to the antibiotics. When humans consume the meat/bacteria they are introducing a colony of theses mutated bacteria. This new colony of mutated bacteria in the human grows bacteria that is resistant to the antibiotics known as "the big guns" Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci (VRE) and Methicillin Resistant Staphylococci Aurious (MRSA)... The practice of using antibiotics in livestock is now being re-examined. What do you think your own use of antibiotics has done to your body combined with the bacteria you eat at meals...


http://www.molbio.princeton.edu/courses/mb427/2001/projects/02/resistance.htm
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 03:05 pm
RexRed wrote:
anastas wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
RexRed wrote:
How do bacteria develope resistance to disease? Is this the question?

As best as I can answer it simply?

Through the process of life and spirit..

All of life and possibly even matter has this and it is what connects us. In the complexity of all things that is at the center of a being a spirit that directs physics. But this simple spirit is also stimulated by the perceptions and intelligence of the world around them and the thoughts and experiences that we call reality. Somewhere in this process there is room for both expansion or compression of a species abilities as we all will and move through the forward motions of time...

You'd be great as a medical researcher.


Really I have never been told that. My sister is a nurse. Thanks Smile


He was being sarcastic. If he wasn't, he should have been. If the 'process of life and spirit' gets us through disease, I'd like you to convince someone to stop taking his prescription pills, or convince someone with cancer to go run the marathon.


Or maybe science has trained the mind to not make use of it's own curative abilities.

My sister helped me with this one...

The history of antibiotic resistant bacteria coming from the over medicating of cows in particular in Europe to prevent diseases in their stock... So what happen is, bacteria that the cows have, becomes resistant to the antibiotics. When humans consume the meat/bacteria they are introducing a colony of theses mutated bacteria. This new colony of mutated bacteria in the human grows bacteria that is resistant to the antibiotics known as "the big guns" Vancomycin Resistant Enterococci (VRE) and Methicillin Resistant Staphylococci Aurious (MRSA)... The practice of using antibiotics in livestock is now being re-examined. What do you think your own use of antibiotics has done to your body combined with the bacteria you eat at meals...


http://www.molbio.princeton.edu/courses/mb427/2001/projects/02/resistance.htm


That is just one special case. It goes like this. You get sick. The doctor gives you an antibiotic. It kills 99.9% of the disease in your body, but leaves the .1 % which happens to be either very hardy or very resistant to the approach that particular medicine takes, or both. Eventually, those bacteria find their way to some susceptible host and procreate. You now have a strain of the bacteria which are much more resistant to that particular medicine and maybe to a variety of medicines. That is called natural selection. If you add the occasional introduction of new traits by mutation (accident), you have the whole story. The bacteria evolve just the same way as other species, but you can see it clearly because their generations are so short.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 04:04 pm
farmerman wrote:
Wandeljw. Looks like Ill have to pick and choose from here on out in this thread.
The Dover Case is getting more interesting. If one were to drive through the community there are all kinds of wacko signs up . I think, by law, they have to remove the signs each night so the telephone poles look like maces with all the sprung staples.


I wish I could see the mayhem. Do you have a link to a local news station or something? Smile
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Apr, 2005 04:45 pm
wandeljw-The elections to fill the school board vacancies are not "In The Bag" for either side by any means. The ICR has been sending in their Goons for God and they have, or so Ive been told by one of the geoscience teachers at Penn State, been holding education sessions for the voters who are leaning. Its an interesting process because, by their exercise of their rights to assemble, they wish to coopt the fist amendment in order to favor one small group of believers. The Lutherans, Presbyterians, EUB, UCC's, the Mennonites, and the RC, are all in support of the concept of evolution"only" in science class . However, the Evangelicals including the UBC, and the Witnesses, are all trying to gather some of the progressive Christians by accomodating the progressives beliefs with the Evangelicals. Wel see if they continue this Ecuminical spirit after the election

Rosborne-I dont know of any sites yet, The York News and the Lancaster news are following it and they both have websites Ill find them and post later.
Im gonna go to google AND SEARCH OUT dOVER PA AND intelligent Design and see if theres not some webcam .
0 Replies
 
 

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