timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:03 pm
RR wrote:

You see little value in the arguments of Jesus Christ ...

Nonsense - what is valueless is the manner in which those of your persuasion present, explain and defend those arguments. Those who argue in such fashion succeed only in demeaning the central, core proposition, and exposing it to ridicule. Powerful, substantive, acedemically sound arguments may be made for the overall Christian proposition, though, as any argument proceeding from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia perforce depends from an undemonstrated, therefore illicit premis, no forensically valid argument may be made for any theophilosophical construct pertaining to or decended from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia. That aside, no powerful, substantive, academically sound argument for any component of the Abrahamic Mythopaeia, Christian or otherwise, has been presented in this discussion, nor in any kindred discussion to be found on these boards.

It is understandable that proponents of the Christian proposition would take exception to much of the argument counter to their proposition as is to be found here. Evident as well, if lamentable, is that the proponents of the Christian proposition who choose to participate in the related discussions here do so ineptly - enthusiastically, vigorously, passionately, determinedly, but none the less ineptly. Again, it is not so much the proposition that is met with scorn, ridicule, and rejection, it is the manner that proposition and its assorted components are presented. In fact, the most active, visible, prolific proponents of the Christian proposition to be found in these discussions are chief among the discreditors of that proposition; the harder they try, the more damage they do to their proposition.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:18 pm
LW,

You are not saying you do not know... You are making an assumption that God does not exist. You belittle my faith, which does not bother me... So as much as you want to avoid the subject you have made unfounded assumptions which leave the burden of proof in your court. Now prove to me that God does not exist? What "evidence" or "proof" do you have for that? What surety do you have that the spirituality of the Bible does not exist? The opposite of the truth is a lie. Such "denial" is a counterfeit for truth and the inherent qualities of life... You are "quick" to deny which tells me it is denial out of convenience and not denial out of detailed reason and integrity.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:22 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Powerful, substantive, acedemically sound arguments may be made for the overall Christian proposition, though, as any argument proceeding from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia perforce depends from an undemonstrated, therefore illicit premis, no forensically valid argument may be made for any theophilosophical construct pertaining to or decended from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia.
What do you mean by the "Christian proposition" as per the above context?
What would the "powerful, substantive, acedemically sound arguments" be as per the above context?
James Clerk Maxwell and the Christian Proposition
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:28 pm
timberlandko wrote:
RR wrote:

You see little value in the arguments of Jesus Christ ...

Nonsense - what is valueless is the manner in which those of your persuasion present, explain and defend those arguments. Those who argue in such fashion succeed only in demeaning the central, core proposition, and exposing it to ridicule. Powerful, substantive, acedemically sound arguments may be made for the overall Christian proposition, though, as any argument proceeding from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia perforce depends from an undemonstrated, therefore illicit premis, no forensically valid argument may be made for any theophilosophical construct pertaining to or decended from the Abrahamic Mythopaeia. That aside, no powerful, substantive, academically sound argument for any component of the Abrahamic Mythopaeia, Christian or otherwise, has been presented in this discussion, nor in any kindred discussion to be found on these boards.

It is understandable that proponents of the Christian proposition would take exception to much of the argument counter to their proposition as is to be found here. Evident as well, if lamentable, is that the proponents of the Christian proposition who choose to participate in the related discussions here do so ineptly - enthusiastically, vigorously, passionately, determinedly, but none the less ineptly. Again, it is not so much the proposition that is met with scorn, ridicule, and rejection, it is the manner that proposition and its assorted components are presented. In fact, the most active, visible, prolific proponents of the Christian proposition to be found in these discussions are chief among the discreditors of that proposition; the harder they try, the more damage they do to their proposition.


What scientific tests have been done to test the effects of "God" in peoples lives? What observations have been made to register and record the change? NONE...

Scientists are oblivious to the effects of God on people... That does not mean they are not observable and testable.

Science does not find that to be "important". If some of these tests were to be made then science could say "God was a bad influence on people". But science does not dare to do these tests because they might find that most godless lives are unhealthy and unproductive...
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:33 pm
RexRed wrote:
What scientific tests have been done to test the effects of "God" in peoples lives? What observations have been made to register and record the change? NONE...
Hey Rex that's just not so, don't you recall the studies done on the efficacy of prayer as posted on this very thread. As well many scientists have provided many studies looking into many supernatural claims over many years.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:36 pm
RexRed wrote:
LW,

You are not saying you do not know... You are making an assumption that God does not exist. You belittle my faith, which does not bother me... So as much as you want to avoid the subject you have made unfounded assumptions which leave the burden of proof in your court. Now prove to me that God does not exist? What "evidence" or "proof" do you have for that? What surety do you have that the spirituality of the Bible does not exist? The opposite of the truth is a lie. Such "denial" is a counterfeit for truth and the inherent qualities of life... You are "quick" to deny which tells me it is denial out of convenience and not denial out of detailed reason and integrity.


Where did I say "God does not exist." Find it.

Where have I belittled your faith? Belittling your pedestrian ravings is not belittling your faith.

What exactly are these unfounded assumptions? Find them and prove they are assumtions. Otherwise, they are not assumptions.

You are in denial -- you have no idea how you're getting all these responses that you are posting mostly nonsense. You go on the defensive with more blatthering.

It is only to be expected from someone in your clouded mindset.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:45 pm
Chum, Maxwell, C.S. Lewis, Thomas Aquinas, even Alvin Plantinga, are to be numbered among the many who argue powerfully, substantively, and in academically sound, if technically not absolutely forensically valid manner, for the Christian Proposition (and, by Christian Proposition, I mean the proposition dependent upon the validity of the God of the Bible as interpreted chiefly through The New Testament and its related writings, ancient and contemporary).

Rex, you're doing it again, or, more accurately, still doing it - what you've written there is just silly, though the concept I assume you're trying to communicate need not necessarily be rendered in silly manner. If you wish your proposition to not be laughed at, don't present it laughably. As ye sow, so shall ye reap, so to speak.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:50 pm
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
What scientific tests have been done to test the effects of "God" in peoples lives? What observations have been made to register and record the change? NONE...
Hey Rex that's just not so, don't you recall the studies done on the efficacy of prayer as posted on this very thread. As well many scientists have provided many studies looking into many supernatural claims over many years.


Yes but I have pointed out that most "Christians" do not even understand as a collective whole how prayer works. The Christian message has been so subverted. Look at what is going on with the Da Vinci code even now.

Instead of trying to prove God through prayer, that is today regrettably moreso than not done without faith, how about chronicling peoples lives before their God experience and other people's lives who does not get the "God experience"... It is conceivably "observable" to see who not only changes but changes for the "better"... A test like that would be as easy as pie and would make a great real life/world drama.

But it should be done by just observing the subjects along a strict set of parameters wellness indicators and ethical stability.

Where is this test? Shall we see the fall of human spirituality before we learn of it's secrets due to scientific bias and suppression?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 04:52 pm
Lightwizard wrote:
RexRed wrote:
LW,

You are not saying you do not know... You are making an assumption that God does not exist. You belittle my faith, which does not bother me... So as much as you want to avoid the subject you have made unfounded assumptions which leave the burden of proof in your court. Now prove to me that God does not exist? What "evidence" or "proof" do you have for that? What surety do you have that the spirituality of the Bible does not exist? The opposite of the truth is a lie. Such "denial" is a counterfeit for truth and the inherent qualities of life... You are "quick" to deny which tells me it is denial out of convenience and not denial out of detailed reason and integrity.


Where did I say "God does not exist." Find it.

Where have I belittled your faith? Belittling your pedestrian ravings is not belittling your faith.

What exactly are these unfounded assumptions? Find them and prove they are assumtions. Otherwise, they are not assumptions.

You are in denial -- you have no idea how you're getting all these responses that you are posting mostly nonsense. You go on the defensive with more blatthering.

It is only to be expected from someone in your clouded mindset.


So you are saying God does exist? Now you have finally managed to confuse me... Laughing
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:12 pm
How do we know what spirits are holy?

How do we know when we are believing a lie? What shall guide us?

Laws or the spirit? Flesh or the spirit? What is the true spirit? What is freedom and liberation? What is a lie? What is an illusion? What is a dream? What is myth? What is history? Fables? Wisdom? Truth?

If the guide is law then it is an external deterrent but if the guide is internal then it is a part of the thought process.

So then it is understanding exactly the synapse of how thoughts work and how "revelation" is received.

This is simple logic in understanding the difference in the idea that people are controlled by laws or by liberty. Laws being external but liberty being internal. So liberty assumes that we receive divine information from a "guide" within...
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:19 pm
maintaining consistent form, RR wrote:

So you are saying God does exist? Now you have finally managed to confuse me... Laughing

It is not true that LW has said either that there exists or does not exist a God, though it is true you appear to be quite confused, perhaps insuperably so.

Now, as to claims, you claim there to be a God, and further that you have some specific relationship with this putative deity. You have established neither premise, nor have you defended either, you have merely presented them.

LW does not say ''There is no God'', LW says "Demonstrate there be a God". That you fail to do, and absent that, any related, thereon dependent, further effort on your part is futile - to the point of being laughable.
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:25 pm
Correct.
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:30 pm
RexRed wrote:
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
What scientific tests have been done to test the effects of "God" in peoples lives? What observations have been made to register and record the change? NONE...
Hey Rex that's just not so, don't you recall the studies done on the efficacy of prayer as posted on this very thread. As well many scientists have provided many studies looking into many supernatural claims over many years.


Yes but I have pointed out that most "Christians" do not even understand as a collective whole how prayer works. The Christian message has been so subverted. Look at what is going on with the Da Vinci code even now.

Instead of trying to prove God through prayer, that is today regrettably moreso than not done without faith, how about chronicling peoples lives before their God experience and other people's lives who does not get the "God experience"... It is conceivably "observable" to see who not only changes but changes for the "better"... A test like that would be as easy as pie and would make a great real life/world drama.

But it should be done by just observing the subjects along a strict set of parameters wellness indicators and ethical stability.

Where is this test? Shall we see the fall of human spirituality before we learn of it's secrets due to scientific bias and suppression?
OK you believe most Christians do not understand how prayer works, I'll bet Christians don't understand how god works either. Nothing new there.

Sorry Rex, it's silly to suggest that the Hollywood movie the Da Vinci Code is a Christian message, subverted or otherwise, or that the reason the Christian religion fails is because the Christian message has been subverted. Surely the incredible power of Christian prayer and the infinite power of the Christian god are vastly stronger than some little Hollywood movie or a few scientists. Surely the all powerful Christian god is not that fussy about how exactly how Christians pray.

Sure, let's chronicle people's lives before their god experience and other people's lives who do not get it:

Christian religious wars
Christian religious bigotry
Christian religious prejudice
Christian religious censorship

Rex show me this "scientific suppression" you claim is undermining the Christian religion.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:35 pm
Chumly, Excellent list if I say so myself:

Christian religious wars
Christian religious bigotry
Christian religious prejudice
Christian religious censorship
0 Replies
 
Chumly
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 05:40 pm
Thanks; lean mean & clean!
0 Replies
 
Lightwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 06:58 pm
Chumly wrote:
Thanks; lean mean & clean!


And added before, by me, so I don't lose what self-esteem I have left! Rolling Eyes

Christian Bias (not exactly the same as prejudice)

A predilection to obfuscate an understanding of science and unmitigatingly try to mesh it with some pseudo-Christian belief that is validated because it's an individual belief and for no other reason.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 07:57 pm
timberlandko wrote:
maintaining consistent form, RR wrote:

So you are saying God does exist? Now you have finally managed to confuse me... Laughing

It is not true that LW has said either that there exists or does not exist a God, though it is true you appear to be quite confused, perhaps insuperably so.

Now, as to claims, you claim there to be a God, and further that you have some specific relationship with this putative deity. You have established neither premise, nor have you defended either, you have merely presented them.

LW does not say ''There is no God'', LW says "Demonstrate there be a God". That you fail to do, and absent that, any related, thereon dependent, further effort on your part is futile - to the point of being laughable.


Now look who is entangled in sophistry...

LW's disbelief reveals his claim.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 08:03 pm
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
Chumly wrote:
RexRed wrote:
What scientific tests have been done to test the effects of "God" in peoples lives? What observations have been made to register and record the change? NONE...
Hey Rex that's just not so, don't you recall the studies done on the efficacy of prayer as posted on this very thread. As well many scientists have provided many studies looking into many supernatural claims over many years.


Yes but I have pointed out that most "Christians" do not even understand as a collective whole how prayer works. The Christian message has been so subverted. Look at what is going on with the Da Vinci code even now.

Instead of trying to prove God through prayer, that is today regrettably moreso than not done without faith, how about chronicling peoples lives before their God experience and other people's lives who does not get the "God experience"... It is conceivably "observable" to see who not only changes but changes for the "better"... A test like that would be as easy as pie and would make a great real life/world drama.

But it should be done by just observing the subjects along a strict set of parameters wellness indicators and ethical stability.

Where is this test? Shall we see the fall of human spirituality before we learn of it's secrets due to scientific bias and suppression?
OK you believe most Christians do not understand how prayer works, I'll bet Christians don't understand how god works either. Nothing new there.

Sorry Rex, it's silly to suggest that the Hollywood movie the Da Vinci Code is a Christian message, subverted or otherwise, or that the reason the Christian religion fails is because the Christian message has been subverted. Surely the incredible power of Christian prayer and the infinite power of the Christian god are vastly stronger than some little Hollywood movie or a few scientists. Surely the all powerful Christian god is not that fussy about how exactly how Christians pray.

Sure, let's chronicle people's lives before their god experience and other people's lives who do not get it:

Christian religious wars
Christian religious bigotry
Christian religious prejudice
Christian religious censorship

Rex show me this "scientific suppression" you claim is undermining the Christian religion.


Just because unethical people have in the name of Christianity tried to suppress the world does not prove that science does not have the same unethical intentions...

People will be people... Are you blaming God for what humans do in his name? Who will we blame for what is done in the name of science and progress?
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 08:08 pm
Rex, How does one blame an imaginary god? Pretty difficult to do unless you're ready to believe man can blame any imaginary personage created by the individual. How about blaming the sun god for all our ills?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 28 May, 2006 08:09 pm
I've got it figured. Rex will try to hold out, to be last poster of the thread, then (he he) declare himself the winner.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Evolution? How?
  3. » Page 534
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.08 seconds on 09/29/2024 at 10:30:35