rl wrote:
You know, I am constantly amazed by the over the top rhetoric on this. Even if you are convinced that creationists are misguided, airheads, stubborn or just plain stupid -- let me ask you:
Do you really think creationists claim to believe in something they really know is not true, and really don't believe in?
No, not at all ... Creationists/ID-iots by and large sincerely, though ignorantly, uncritically, unquestioningly believe the comforting mythology they're fed. Most of them really don't know any better, and few if any even have any inclination to learn ... "It was good enough for Paul and Silas, its good enough for me". Fear, ignorance, and superstition easilly trump reason, knowledge, and understanding, in that they require no initiative, no effort, call for no independent thought, challenge no cherished comforts, traditions, or legends.
Quote:The constant accusation of "lies, lies, lies" seems to me to be so much crying wolf.
That the delusional may believe, however fervently, in an untruth in no way imarts any truth to the deluded belief; a lie is a lie, whether sincerely believed or not.
Quote:I give most evolutionists credit for really believing what they say. I don't agree with them, but I don't think they are telling me something they really don't believe.
Science is not a matter of faith, belief, and uncritical acceptance, it is a matter of understanding, knowledge, and analysis driven by objective, critical thought ... a distinction not just lost on but unachievable by the proponents of Creationism/ID-iocy. In their sorely limited, unidirectional, archaic worldview, that which is inconsistent with the Abrahamic mythopaeia presents a challenge to the faith of those steeped in the fables, parables, allegories, legends, and dogma contained therein. Creationists/ID-iots are faced with an irresolvable dillema; either their scriptures are the literal, immutable, eternal word of their godhead, imparting unchallengeable truth and authority to the explicit and implicit traditions and beliefs central to the mythopaeia, or they are not, and if they are not the mythopaeia on which the believers are foundationally dependent collapses. Those committed to the Creationist/ID-iot proposition not only will not but cannot discern, let alone acknowledge, endorse, and embrace the differences between between faith and understanding, belief and knowledge, acceptance and objective, critical analysis; fear, ignorance and superstition preclude them from doing so.
Quote:I think they are mistaken and operate from faulty assumptions, sometimes employ circular reasoning, or try to make circumstantial evidence say more than it really says.
The mistaken, faulty assumptions and the circular reasoning are soley the province of - and foundational to - the Creationist/ID-iot proposition. Actual understanding of the available evidence, of the scientific method and of the definition, purpose and function of scientific theory demonstrate conclusively and unambiguously the absurdity of the Creationist/ID-iot proposition - a proposition entirely dependent upon rejection of evidence, science, and logic.
Quote:Many of them are quite brilliant people, and many others aren't at all.
An observation of broad truth; that can be said of almost any demographic. On the other hand, I'm aware of no academic integrity, intellectual honesty, forensic rigor, scientic discovery, or brilliance of any sort stemming from the Creationist/ID-iot camp.
Quote:But I'd be hard pressed to find one, even in this forum, who I could say with certainty that they are intentionally trying to deceive by promoting something they know to be false.
I'll largely agree with that observation; some know, understand, endorse, and champion science, knowledge and discovery, others merely believe, accept, embrace, and proselytize fear, ignorance, and superstion.
