Evolution? How?

RexRed wrote:

There are two "Gods" named in the Bible one is Lucifer "the God (theos) of this world" (also called the prince of the power of the air) and then there is "the one true God". (It has not always been a mono theism)

The problem was there were two Gods and the human spirit was unable at times to distinguish between them.

In other words God was able to compromise with the devil and give the devil some power in order to allow a few of the righteous to pass free...

Make sense?

No. At what time did God and the Devil do this deal? Really these sorts of fantastic speculations are not worth considering unless you have a particular penchant for fairy stories. If I didn't know better I would say you were just making this stuff up as you go along.

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As if we all didn't know, he's revealed himself as the resident amateur soapbox cleric on A2K.

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RexRed wrote:

The universe is not an accident.. The earth did not perfectly align with the moon by chance. The ancients knew the awe of this.

The ancients were ignorant and didn't know what to make of nature so they created gods and used them to explain all they were ignorant of. We still have people doing that today. They're called creationist and ID'ers. It shows us that some have not advanced much since the Stone Age.

There are an infinite number of suns in our universe. I say infinite because I can't think of a number that can quantify them. However there is a number I know of that quantifies the number of planets estimated, with our present knowledge, to be in our universe; 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. I might point out that in 1500 the number of planets conceived of was 7. So it is very probable that this number may change with further future knowledge.

Now you say the universe was not by accident. But you have no evidence for this. You just pulled this idea out of the hat and state it as fact. So without evidence we can safely discount this statement as foolish nonsense, religious gobbledygook, unless you can provide good science to back up your statement.

You say the earth did not perfectly align with the moon by chance. Well your wrong. With 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe I would think that the moon not aligning perfectly with the earth would be very unusual, don't you think?

And, by the way, what is perfectly? The moon is never the same distance from earth. It was much closer in the past than now and it will be further from us in the future. So what alignment is perfect and what distance is perfect. Are you also suggesting that there is no other planet in the universe with this "perfect" alignment? We are the only one in the universe with this "perfect" design so that God's most perfect creation would have a place to live?

I would agree with what you say Rex if, and only if, we were the only thing that existed in this universe. But we're not. And because we're not the idea of designed creation is and will be utter nonsense, until science can provide us with evidence to support your religious mythology.

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Lightwizard wrote:

As if we all didn't know, he's revealed himself as the resident amateur soapbox cleric on A2K.

You know when I come back you guys will be eating the words in the last three replies...

hehe

Then we will see who has "read the Bible"...

I am not an "amateur" by any stretch of the imagination...

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xingu wrote:

RexRed wrote:
The universe is not an accident.. The earth did not perfectly align with the moon by chance. The ancients knew the awe of this.

The ancients were ignorant and didn't know what to make of nature so they created gods and used them to explain all they were ignorant of. We still have people doing that today. They're called creationist and ID'ers. It shows us that some have not advanced much since the Stone Age.

There are an infinite number of suns in our universe. I say infinite because I can't think of a number that can quantify them. However there is a number I know of that quantifies the number of planets estimated, with our present knowledge, to be in our universe; 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. I might point out that in 1500 the number of planets conceived of was 7. So it is very probable that this number may change with further future knowledge.

Now you say the universe was not by accident. But you have no evidence for this. You just pulled this idea out of the hat and state it as fact. So without evidence we can safely discount this statement as foolish nonsense, religious gobbledygook, unless you can provide good science to back up your statement.

You say the earth did not perfectly align with the moon by chance. Well your wrong. With 3,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe I would think that the moon not aligning perfectly with the earth would be very unusual, don't you think?

And, by the way, what is perfectly? The moon is never the same distance from earth. It was much closer in the past than now and it will be further from us in the future. So what alignment is perfect and what distance is perfect. Are you also suggesting that there is no other planet in the universe with this "perfect" alignment? We are the only one in the universe with this "perfect" design so that God's most perfect creation would have a place to live?

I would agree with what you say Rex if, and only if, we were the only thing that existed in this universe. But we're not. And because we're not the idea of designed creation is and will be utter nonsense, until science can provide us with evidence to support your religious mythology.

There you go dumbing down the universe again...

You have no proof that we are not alone in this universe..

Your use of the law of probability (That there is other life in the universe.) will trip you up because I can use the same law to prove the probability of God...

hehe

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

RexRed wrote:
There are two "Gods" named in the Bible one is Lucifer "the God (theos) of this world" (also called the prince of the power of the air) and then there is "the one true God". (It has not always been a mono theism)

The problem was there were two Gods and the human spirit was unable at times to distinguish between them.

In other words God was able to compromise with the devil and give the devil some power in order to allow a few of the righteous to pass free...

Make sense?
No. At what time did God and the Devil do this deal? Really these sorts of fantastic speculations are not worth considering unless you have a particular penchant for fairy stories. If I didn't know better I would say you were just making this stuff up as you go along.

I can name several "deals" that God made with the devil to save mankind. These deals hinge on the written "laws"...

One deal is the law "sin is death" both God and the devil agreed on this law... This is why we have the devil acting as the destroyer and the reaper...

For the same law inverted is that righteousness and obedience is life...

Mankind did not fare too well on this law but but it was Christ Jesus who without sin was able to be raised from the dead and thus redeem the world. (this law made that possible)

We see the devil opening up the floodgates of heaven in the OT and pouring out death (it was not God who caused the flood only indirectly because he and the devil both used the same law. The devil used the law to kill and God used it to grant life...)

So what was the rainbow and promise to man about? How could God stop the devil from flooding the world again if they did not have deals or consequences?

When the devil caused the flood with death it enabled God in the new testament to open the floodgates of heaven and pour out blessings...

Also
God has a son born on the earth and he is good... later the devil will have a son and that son will be evil...

When the devil oversteps a law then God has the legal right to counter it.

When God oversteps a law the devil has the legal right to counter it.

These are the "deals"...

There are rules and laws to life and we are affected by them ultimately.

This is why "spiritual" wisdom is often convoluted and is not always what humans on their own would induce from basic five senses experiences...

The Bible is full of deals, agreements and "covenants" with God. The trees in the garden were an agreement between man/woman and God too...

If you make an agreement and break it with God, is it God's fault?

Yes God saw (in his foreknowledge) the fall of lucifer and the fall of mankind... But he looked ahead further and saw the obedience of Christ and the redemption of millions of "Christians"...

And you question God's judgment?

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Well its a nice story Red, but you cant expect anyone over the age of 10 to believe it.

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Of course, you have proof of this "redemption." You're dumbing down the Bible in a subversively fruitcake manner. You must keep them in stitches from the pulpit but I'd worry they were laughing at you, not with you.

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Steve (as 41oo) wrote:

Well its a nice story Red, but you cant expect anyone over the age of 10 to believe it.

You are showing your spiritual age...

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Lightwizard wrote:

Of course, you have proof of this "redemption." You're dumbing down the Bible in a subversively fruitcake manner. You must keep them in stitches from the pulpit but I'd worry they were laughing at you, not with you.

If I cared what people think over what God thinks I would be a "follower" like you...

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What is a "follower?" Your riddles are unique in how dumb-headed they all are.

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Lightwizard wrote:

What is a "follower?" Your riddles are unique in how dumb-headed they all are.

A follower is a believer or unbeliever who takes someone else's word for what the Bible says rather than looking for themselves...

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A brilliant explanation. NOT.

Certainly wouldn't follow your nonsensical dissertations on the Bible, that's for sure.

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The art of exegesis is to take every considerable piece of logic and compare it with other logic and out of the mass of information to find the majority of logic that points sure footed and to then adhere and test that logic.

But to simply pick out only a single thought and to mass the logic together and the pick the least corroborated logic to build doctrine which is contrary to what is actually written. This is what has happened... this is why "the word" has "contradictions"... They are contradictions only in OUR "understanding" of them...

The only reason you can have is DIRECTLY with the scriptures you cannot reason (with authority or certainty) with something extraneous and super impose it. The message must come from within the words and not be imposed upon it.

2Pe 1:21
For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2Ti 2:15
Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

Comment:
Those words "rightly dividing" are translated directly from Greek Euclidian geometry...

It is saying to divide the scriptures until there is an even division with no "remainder" left (or no scriptures left that contradict)...

It would not say rightly dividing "the word" if it could not be done...

2 Timothy 3:16 + 17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

Comment:
Notice it does not say thoroughly but the word is pronounced "thruly"...

Throughly furnished...

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Moving the furniture around does not make anything thoroughly furnished. I must admit your sophistry knows no bounds. Congratulations -- you pushed the envelope out on lunacy.

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Lightwizard wrote:

A brilliant explanation. NOT.

Certainly wouldn't follow your nonsensical dissertations on the Bible, that's for sure.

I am not advocating you follow "my" doctrine. I am saying if you study the Bible YOURSELF "honestly" you will most likely in the end arrive at the same exact conclusion I have...

But instead, X&#^@%*# your knowledge is not first hand but second third and so on... And with this type of knowledge you cannot speak with "Biblical" authority... You may be right you may be wrong...

So until you have some actual scriptures under your belt... how can you prove me "biblically" wrong?

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Rex, ol' buddy, I submit I have "studied the Bible" - not religiously, but objectively, critically, extensively - over several decades - and in context of its contemporaries, antecedents, derivatives, competitors, and commentaries thereon.

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ok whats the last word of second to last paragraph page 585?

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Which printing of what edition of which version, in what language?

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You're using yourself as an authority to support your own meanderings again rex, you gotta stop doing that. I'm getting dizzy from the spinning.

Guess what?
I too have studied the bible extensively! Not as the 'word of god', mind you, but as one of the oldest surviving historical fictions, as the work of literature that it is.(Although for considerably less time than timbers impressive 'several decades')
I know the bible better than any christian I've ever discussed religion with in person that's for sure. What makes you think you know anything I don't? My conclusions about the bible share nothing in common with yours. Having studied it extensively with no religious agenda, shouldn't I have come to the same 'correct' conclusions you have?
What of the umpteen zillion professed christians that constitute vanilla flavor christianity..are they ALL wrong?
Where are all the other people besides yourself, today and throughout history, that have also reached your 'correct' conclusions about what the bible really says/means? I certainly haven't read them. Perhaps they all took an oath of secrecy? Razz

Rex, delusions of grandeur may not be your only delusions, but they are certainly part of the set.

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