RexRed wrote:timberlandko wrote: Nothing in science precludes the existence of a deity or deities, nothing in science indicates the existence of a deity or deities; the question of deity is beyond the scope of science.
Did Marie Curie exist or was she just a fairy tale? Were Isaac Newton or Albert Einstein fables?
Yet apples still fall to the ground and things go "bang" in the night...
Were Abraham, Moses or Jesus real people? Yet people still believe in their God...
Meaningless non sequitur, as pertinent in context as stating disposable diapers are innefficient as floatation devices, yet people still apply them to infants.
Quote:Timber I think you have experience in what you have been taught and you believe it and things are testable.
I have experience in what I've learned, and among that which I have learned is to test everything, to find both that which will and that which will not stand to scrutiny.
Quote:But you have not (at least admittedly) ever turned your life over to God and lived as a "believer" so you have no real understanding experientially.
An unwarranted, and incidentally incorrect, assumption on your part. No point detailing the chain of discovery that led to my liberation from the intellectual and emotional slavery of religionist groupthink, but I find amusing a personal ephinany occasioned in part by Paul the Apostle,
1 Corinthians, 13:11, and in part by a song from a Disney cartoon:
PETER PAN:
Are you ready for today's lesson?
ALL:
Yes, sir!
PETER PAN:
Listen to your father. Repeat after me:
I won't grow up,
----I won't grow up
I don't want to go to school.
----I don't want to go to school
Just to learn to be a parrot,
----Just to learn to be a parrot
And recite a silly rule.
----And recite a silly rule
If growing up means
It would be beneath my dignity to climb a tree,
I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me!
Not I,
Not me!
Not me!
I won't grow up,
----I won't grow up
I don't want to wear a tie.
----I don't want to wear a tie
Or a serious expression
----Or a serious expression
In the middle of July.
----In the middle of July
And if it means I must prepare
To shoulder burdens with a worried air,
I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me,
Not I,
Not me!
So there!
Never gonna be a man,
I won't!
Like to see somebody try
And make me.
Anyone who wants to try
And make me turn into a man,
Catch me if you can.
I won't grow up.
----I wont grow up
I will never even try
----I will never even try
I will do what Peter tells me
----I will do what Peter tells me
And I'll never ask him why
----And I'll never ask him why
We won't grow up!
----We won't grow up
We will never grow a day
----We will never grow a day
And if someone tries to make it
----And if someone tries to make it
We will simply run away
----We will simply run away
I won't grow up!
----I won't grow up
No, I promise that I won't
----No, I promise that I won't
I will stay a boy forever
----I will stay a boy forever
And be banished if I don't!
----And be banished if I don't
And Never Land will always be
The home of youth and joy
And liberty
I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up
Not me!
Not me!
Not I!
I wont!
No sir!
Not me!
Not me!
Some of us do grow up, some don't.
Quote:The fundamental reasoning behind Christianity is "power or energy". So using power and the analogy is only augmented by our understanding of power on a physical level.
The equation goes like this.
The purpose of the Christian conversion is to receive spiritual power.
Christianity in the Bible couldn't be any more scientific.
Just like when you plug in an electrical appliance it will not function without power so the human will not reach full potential if they are not positively energized.
Once a "believer" receives this "power" within it may lay dormant. It will still create an environment for improvement but it's true potential may never be realized in this life.
The power may lay dormant and the mind may regress even deeper into despair. Why does not this power just make the believer better? Because it works with scientific laws. One must properly operated the spirit. Much like a computer the spirit can be user friendly but it's inner workings must be understood in order to cause the spirit to move. So when the spirits operations and manifestations are intimately known then the paths of communication through prayer, knowledge, wisdom are opened to the mind. The mind is renewed by this energized power and God exceeds our expectations.
Now this is a journey into the spirit Timber that I do not know that you have made yet. If it is really based upon a real form of (unknown) energy that one receives and you if have not received it you could never "test" this energy or observe how it has opened your consciousness to greater understanding of the WHOLE universe around you.
You cannot operate and observe something that you have not received first.
In other, simpler words, "Unless one accepts (
insert brand of) religious faith, one cannot know (
insert brand of) religious faith, unless one knows (
insert brand of) religious faith, one cannot receive (
insert brand of) religious faith, and without (
insert brand of) religious faith, one cannot receive (
insert brand of) religious faith". That's a come-from-nowhere, go-nowhere circular proposition.
Some grow up, put aside the things of children, and meet life head on, head up, taking it for what it is, come what may, making the best of it, others cling to fairytales, fantasies, and fabrications, tucking their heads behind the cloak of myth and mystery, by their superstitions shielding themselves from the realities of life.
Demonstrate objectively and in forensically valid manner that religious faith be differentiable from superstition.
