Evolution? How?

littlek wrote:

Hez, science is a growing dynamic field. I don't doubt we will figure it all out some day - through science.

I do believe science is growing. I am not so certain all things will be explained by it though.

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Lightwizard wrote:

Science has explained it. Ya just have to read. That is how one educates themselves -- remember school? Teachers can really only teach you how to learn for yourself. Somehow it doesn't sink in which is why we have the President we have today.

That's the thing though lightwizard. How can I know what I am reading is true or accuate? Just because someone said it? Just because someone considers something "proof" does that really have to mean it is "proof" to anyone else? I've been reading the bible for 17 years and that according to many is the farthest thing from the truth.

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You can either trust scientist to be of such a high order of intelligence, and, in fact, they are often geniuses, or not. I know what clerics try to drill into people -- it's brainwashing. Scientists do not attempt to brainwash and they are, in fact, the epitome of the sceptic. They question every theory and concept, but they research it for decades to be sure they are purveying the truth or very close to the truth. Refusing to read and learn because you doubt they are telling the truth, that they are fabricating it, after seventeen years reading a book that was largely written by secretaries wandering about the deserts of the Mid-east is not making your case.

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I'm not trying to make a case. I just want to know what makes theory's on evolution so much more reliable than theory's on religion. Sorry I should have made that thought a little more clear.

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cicerone imposter wrote:

Creationists makes every effort to rationalize what is so obvious to those who can see beyond the bible.

CI, if I recall correctly you have some knowledge of Buddhism, I think. Did classic Buddhist teaching (pre-Darwin) teach evolution?

What about other eastern religious traditions? Did any of them teach anything resembling evolution before the world ever heard of Darwin?

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It could be a start to research where the myths of the Bible came from. For instance, Noah's flood. That is in more than myth and is, in fact, found in many other mythologies other than the Bible. Scientists have determined that there are ruins under the Black Sea and geological evidence that the Black Sea once flooded out the entire area. A world-wide flood? That's the fantasy of the Bible as they still believe the world was flat and there was no China where evolution was also taking place, but, then again, even the Chinese formed their own mythologies. The Chinese mythologies and roots of their religion are even more fascinating than the Western version, a pretty much cut-and-dried Jewish account of the beginning of the world. They have no flooding of the world in their mythology.

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Ok, fair enough. So then what makes the theory's on evolution so much more reliable than the theory's on religion?

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Tangible proof

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If evolution occured, why did it take until the 1800s for it to be discovered or theorized?

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Lash you are quite possibly right about that. However there are many things there are not tangible proof for as well right? Well, at least they can't be explained yet. May I ask what "proofs" evolution has to offer that you consider tangible?

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hephzibah wrote:

I'm not trying to make a case. I just want to know what makes theory's on evolution so much more reliable than theory's on religion. Sorry I should have made that thought a little more clear.

Every theory is a theory, but not every theory is a *scientific* theory.

Evolutionary theory, is based on the rules of science, which in turn is based on the assumptions of naturalism.

Religious theory is not based on science, nor is it grounded in naturalism.

Theories that are grounded in different philosophies can not be cross-compared for reliability because they are based on different rule sets.

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Who makes up the rules anyway? Just curious.

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hephzibah wrote:

well I'm not going to read 800 pages worth of people's opinions of it. Call it what you will... answer me this if you will... If we "evolved" from apes, why are there still apes?

We didn't evolve from apes, we evolved from a common ancestor with apes.

And apes are still around for the same reason many people have cousin's and uncles and brothers and sisters. Apes are our genetic cousins, not our ancestors.

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hephzibah wrote:

Lash you are quite possibly right about that. However there are many things there are not tangible proof for as well right? Well, at least they can't be explained yet. May I ask what "proofs" evolution has to offer that you consider tangible?

Recent adaptations of animals to their environments--fossils and bones of creatures that no longer exist--Australia.

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The "why are there still apes" question is answered like this:

If your great great grandmother was Chinese--are all her descendants going to 1) be Chinese in appearance or culture, 2) look the same?

If you don't appear to look Chinese because of all the people who lived between you and your great great grandmother, does that mean all Chinese looking people must disappear from the earth?

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rosborne979 wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
well I'm not going to read 800 pages worth of people's opinions of it. Call it what you will... answer me this if you will... If we "evolved" from apes, why are there still apes?

We didn't evolve from apes, we evolved from a common ancestor with apes.

And apes are still around for the same reason many people have cousin's and uncles and brothers and sisters. Apes are our genetic cousins, not our ancestors.

Hmm... interesting. And science has physical proof of these ancestors?

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Lash wrote:

hephzibah wrote:
Lash you are quite possibly right about that. However there are many things there are not tangible proof for as well right? Well, at least they can't be explained yet. May I ask what "proofs" evolution has to offer that you consider tangible?

Recent adaptations of animals to their environments--fossils and bones of creatures that no longer exist--Australia.

Ok, fair enough. Are any of these bones and fossils of a human in the midst of evolving?

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Yes.

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Yes. Just one example of many:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=hominid+Lucy&spell=1

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hephzibah wrote:

rosborne979 wrote:
hephzibah wrote:
well I'm not going to read 800 pages worth of people's opinions of it. Call it what you will... answer me this if you will... If we "evolved" from apes, why are there still apes?

We didn't evolve from apes, we evolved from a common ancestor with apes.

And apes are still around for the same reason many people have cousin's and uncles and brothers and sisters. Apes are our genetic cousins, not our ancestors.

Hmm... interesting. And science has physical proof of these ancestors?

Yes.

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