Evolution? How?

Quote:

According to the MountEverest-dot-net history page, Mount Everest formed about 60 million years ago. Kind of shoots the whole 6000+ year exegesis of Bishop Ussher right in the ass. We are not dealing with rational arguments in cases like these.

Real's logic baffles me. He claims the flood waters did not reach the 30,000 foot level (above MSL). His dogma says all sedimentary rock on mountain tops are the result of the flood, therefore Everest was less then its present elevation. How much he doesn't say. Of course, no science to back him up, just religious dogma.

The Everest official website says Everest is rising a few millimeters every year. Let's say it rises 4mm a year. In 4,300 years it would have risen 17,200 mm. Translated in inches that would be 677 inches or 56 feet.

Aconcagua is the highest point on the Andes Mountain chain. Its elevation is 22,834 feet. I wonder if the flood waters reached that high.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

OK, so did any of the folks in the areas where the water took several days to rise take that time to build a raft in order to escape?

They didn't need to, since the National Guard came in with boats, Humvees and helicopters. The point was floods can be slow.
P

0 Replies

How slow?

0 Replies

cicerone imposter wrote:

How slow?

It was sooooo slow......

In this case it took about 3 or 4 days for the rivers to crest. The ground was already saturated from Hurricane Dennis rains (which had doubled back and hit again as a tropical storm) and there was no where for the Hurricane Floyd water to go. And Floyd was twice the size of typical Atlantic hurricane, some 500 miles across.

"By the time the rivers crested, nearly all the major roads in Duplin, Jones, Pender, Greene, Lenoir, Craven, Pitt, and Edgecombe Counties were impassible. Among the major transportation arteries blocked by flooding were U.S. 70 in Kinston, U.S. 17 in Washington, Pollocksville, and portions of Brunswick County, U.S. 264 between Greenville and Washington, U.S. 64 in Edgecombe County, U.S. 24 in Beaulaville and Kenansville, I-40 in Pender County, and I-95 near Rocky Mount. At the peak of the flood, Department of Transportation officials reported that 1,400 eastern North Carolina roads were impassible. Bridges were washed out in dozens of places and asphalt crumbled in others, creating submerged driving hazards that were invisible to motorists. Across eastern North Carolina, 283 bridges were damaged by the storm, and 17 were completely washed away or undermined. The impassible roads complicated the disaster by slowing relief efforts in many cities, forcing drivers to make elaborate detours and delaying the delivery of food and supplies for days. Five shelters -- three in Edgecombe County and two in Pitt County -- were completely isolated by flooding and could only be supplied by helicopter. By late October, weeks after the storm, 232 of the state's roads were still closed to traffic."
http://www.ibiblio.org/uncpress/hurricanes/nc_floyd.html

http://www.mountolivetribune.com/floodpics/storm16.jpg

Hmm, an Ark story in the making?

P

0 Replies

3 or 4 days of rain is not unusual; some create floods that disappears within weeks.

How do you extrapolate a local flood into a world flood?

0 Replies

Pauligirl wrote:

real life wrote:

OK, so did any of the folks in the areas where the water took several days to rise take that time to build a raft in order to escape?

They didn't need to, since the National Guard came in with boats, Humvees and helicopters. The point was floods can be slow.
P

And if the waters are slow to rise, people don't generally build rafts and then wait til the water is higher to float out and escape.

The very reason that the story of the Flood is unusual is because if the water rose rapidly there's no time to build a big boat or raft in order to escape, and if the water is rising slow there's no need to build a big boat or raft in order to escape.

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

0 Replies

real life wrote:

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

Let's see, you claim it's a popular mythological construct so it must be true. I claim a popular mythological construct is that the earth is at the center of the universe, so it must be true too.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that nearly every culture on Earth which has a Flood story is located near water? Where there are already boats available?

Naw, it can't have anything to do with that.

0 Replies

Wolf_ODonnell wrote:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that nearly every culture on Earth which has a Flood story is located near water?

Or located near public toilets Embarrassed

0 Replies

Quote:

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that nearly every culture on Earth which has a Flood story is located near water? Where there are already boats available?

Of course all those flood stories by other cultures had to be the Biblical Flood. No other flood has ever occurred on earth until modern times.

Quote:

"All in all, then, from the purely geologic point of view we should expect independent flood traditions to have arisen almost anywhere in the world at almost any time, engendered by flood catastrophes stemming from perfectly natural causes, and of all the possible causes of floods, only tsunamis are capable of giving rise to flood legends in widely separated places at the same time."
- Dorothy B. Vitaliano, Legends of the Earth (1976) p. 150

For example the Greek myth of Deukalion's flood most likely originated in the tsunami created by the eruption of Thera in the 17th c. B.C.E.

source

I would like Real to explain to us why there is a lack of evidence of the annihilation of the human species 4,300 years ago.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

Put up, or shut up--prove this contention. It is absolute crap that "nearly every culture on Earth" has such a story. Given that Aryan tribes originate in the area of the Black and Caspian Seas, and spread to the middle east, the central Asian highlands, to the subcontinent and all over Europe--that can easily account for the spread of the tale. Given that Jews and Bible-thumpers has proselytized right across Africa and Eurasia, it is impossible to deny the possibility of cultural pollution.

That's an absurdity--if it were true, you could easily demonstrate that a significant number of cultures who were not exposed to the Aryans or Judeo-christianity had such stories, or had them before those jokers arrived. Failing of such a proof, there's absolutely no reason to accept your bald-faced contention to that effect without proof.

I do find it uproariously hilarious that you continue to attempt to claim that fairy tale flood story is true, though. For free entertainment, you can't beat it.

Tell us, "real life," do you faitfully adhere to the good Bishop Ussher's 6000 year-old-earth exegesis? Do you believe the world was "created" on the evening of October 22d, 4004 BC [sic]? Do you prefer Kepler's estimate, 3992 BC? How about Martin Luther, he kept things simple, with a nice round number, 4000 BC. Then there's Sir James Lightfoot, who corrected Ussher's exegesis, and plumped for 9:00 a.m., October 3, 4004 BC.

Or perhaps you have your own timeline you'd be willing to share with us.

0 Replies

rl, you have to realize that the sedimentary deposits in the Himalayas are almost lying vertically wrt to "original horizontality" All water born sed deposits are originally layed down horizontal to the waters surface. Then by tectonics is the rock mass moved, (Like when INDIA smashes against the belly of ASIA)

Im amazed that , the same silly questions are being brought up , but the answers are getting more and more sophisticated as the huge amounts of evidence are being brought out and shown to the likes of rl and his fellow Creationists. Dont they get the sneaking suspicion that theirs is a cause best left in the 1860:s?

ch " So the Cambrian Explosion shows severe faults with the theory of evolution? How could there be such a large jump in the fossil record?"

This is so much tripe. The evidence is clear and compelling. The Creationists would have us believe that life appeared all at once, fully formed, and ready to go in a time less than 10K years ago AND THEN. they have the cojones to try to critique aome well documented scientific evidence that shows that the appearance of "hard shelled life" occurs at the base of the CAmbrian and occurs in a time span from 10 to over 60 million in length.
The base of the CAmbrian was never established by the life forms themselves but by the tubes and other evidence of bioturbation that had not appeared anywhere else before that. The Cambrian base had to be changed a number of times in the International Startigraphic Nomenclature because it was found that bioturbation did indeed occur in the Vendean and that there were some hard shelled preCAmbrain forms in the mid Proterozoic (about 900 my ago)
What the Creationists fail to remember is that, while the groups of shelled animals like trilobites and chordates appeared in the early Cambian , we had to wait another few hundred million years for gymnosperms , angiosperms, bony fishes , reptiles , amphibians, birds, dinosaurs and mammals. These early animals (like some from the Burgess Fm) gave rise to evolutionary templates that were used over and over again (Once an advantageous feature is developed, it never disappears, it just goes into the planets CAD system of the genome)

0 Replies

Basically, propagandists such as "real life" attempt to bog the discussion down in silly matters of detail, which rely upon false contentions and a disingenuous intention to willfully misunderstand the tenets of a theory of evolution. It is best to deal with the "Medved" types who come here to pollute the board with their propaganda by returning to basics.

"Real life," do you contend that the world is only slightly more than 6000 years old?

What evidence do you have that the diversity of life forms on this planet are the product of a direct creation by a deity?

0 Replies

Quote:

rl, you have to realize that the sedimentary deposits in the Himalayas are almost lying vertically wrt to "original horizontality" All water born sed deposits are originally layed down horizontal to the waters surface. Then by tectonics is the rock mass moved, (Like when INDIA smashes against the belly of ASIA)

Good point. Looking at the Appalachians you don't see flat beds They're all anticlines and synclines. By your logic Real, all the mountains in the world that are topped with sedimentary deposits would have risen after the flood, in the last 4300 years.

So was the earth flat during the time of the Biblical Flood? There were no mountains?

0 Replies

real life wrote:

Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:

OK, so did any of the folks in the areas where the water took several days to rise take that time to build a raft in order to escape?

They didn't need to, since the National Guard came in with boats, Humvees and helicopters. The point was floods can be slow.
P

And if the waters are slow to rise, people don't generally build rafts and then wait til the water is higher to float out and escape.

The very reason that the story of the Flood is unusual is because if the water rose rapidly there's no time to build a big boat or raft in order to escape, and if the water is rising slow there's no need to build a big boat or raft in order to escape.

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

The very reason that the story of the Flood is unusual is because it's not real. There's no way to get through the story without invoking the supernatural so these "details" really don't matter much, do they?

The real Noah...."I coulda got the cows out if I'd a had a big boat..."
P

0 Replies

Pauligirl wrote:

real life wrote:
Pauligirl wrote:
real life wrote:

OK, so did any of the folks in the areas where the water took several days to rise take that time to build a raft in order to escape?

They didn't need to, since the National Guard came in with boats, Humvees and helicopters. The point was floods can be slow.
P

And if the waters are slow to rise, people don't generally build rafts and then wait til the water is higher to float out and escape.

The very reason that the story of the Flood is unusual is because if the water rose rapidly there's no time to build a big boat or raft in order to escape, and if the water is rising slow there's no need to build a big boat or raft in order to escape.

So why does nearly every culture on Earth (not just near the Black Sea or the Caspian) have the story of a Flood where the main character does this?

The very reason that the story of the Flood is unusual is because it's not real. There's no way to get through the story without invoking the supernatural so these "details" really don't matter much, do they?

Are you saying you can prove that the supernatural is not possible?

0 Replies

xingu wrote:

Quote:
rl, you have to realize that the sedimentary deposits in the Himalayas are almost lying vertically wrt to "original horizontality" All water born sed deposits are originally layed down horizontal to the waters surface. Then by tectonics is the rock mass moved, (Like when INDIA smashes against the belly of ASIA)

Good point. Looking at the Appalachians you don't see flat beds They're all anticlines and synclines. By your logic Real, all the mountains in the world that are topped with sedimentary deposits would have risen after the flood, in the last 4300 years.

So was the earth flat during the time of the Biblical Flood? There were no mountains?

Obviously sedimentary strata are laid down horizontally if the underlying area is completely flat. What if it is not?

I don't think that the Earth was necessarily completely smooth surfaced before the Flood, (at least there is nothing that would require it to have been so); sedimentary layers could have been laid down on hills, inclines, mounts etc of varying size etc What do these look like if the area is further elevated after the fact?

0 Replies

real life wrote:

Are you saying you can prove that the supernatural is not possible?

Whether or not it can be proved not possible, never has it been proven possible despite much effort to that end, effort undertaken over several millenia with great diligence and greater passion, and which so far has resulted in significant contraindication and no affirmative indication.

0 Replies

real life wrote:

Obviously sedimentary strata are laid down horizontally if the underlying area is completely flat. What if it is not?

I don't think that the Earth was necessarily completely smooth surfaced before the Flood, (at least there is nothing that would require it to have been so); sedimentary layers could have been laid down on hills, inclines, mounts etc of varying size etc What do these look like if the area is further elevated after the fact?

rl, your fantasy flight crashes and burns prior to takeoff due to the fact that sedimentation follows the rules of gravity as applied to fluid dynamics. Of course, gravity is just a theory, too.

0 Replies

rl

Quote:

Obviously sedimentary strata are laid down horizontally if the underlying area is completely flat. What if it is not?

I missed this one Timber. If the underlying earth structures are not flat, the infilling sediments still are deposited horizontally. As Timber said water borne sediments are afluid. (so are ice and wind borne, the only sed layers that dont follow original horizontality are layers of lavas, which, while technically not sedimentary layers, flow like warm syrup)

Look up unconformity, angular uncomformity, disconformity, and paraconformity. These are some terms that describe one sed l;ayer overlying or being deposited on top of another

0 Replies

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know