Evolution? How?

thx, reading it now

rex red. Heres some more "bog people". In Maine, Im aware of a mastodon found in a peat bog near Meddybemps. (Its about 30 mi SW of Calais). The state archeologists have been doing lots of site work on Paleo cultures on areas around swamps and bogs, however , as the ice retreated the ground took another 5000 years to rebound and many areas inland (farther North than Bangor were underwater for a while).

Heres the siteBOG PEOPLE OF EUROPE

BTW, theres a really good book about the geology of Maine by Dabney Caldwell. Its THE ROADSIDE GEOLOGY OF MAINE, from Mountain Press of Missoula Montana.

Not as such, I suppose, though the line between living and nonliving is certainly blurry. (Viruses, fer instance...) Which is not to say that RNA isn't cool stuff. It can be used to reproduce itself (like DNA), and it can self-assemble and catalyze reactions (like protein).

Funny, the more we learn about cancer (and mutation in general), the more and more we find that retroviruses (RNA that copies itself into strands of DNA, which the host cell then replicates each time it divides) play a major role. They may also play a major role in the transfer of genetic material in plants and animals, as phage viruses do in bacteria.

Weird stuff going on down there where not even electron microscopes can see...

Lynn MArgules books are centered about the "RNA universe" of protoctists sucking up genomes via RNA messengers reading into a euky cell. Shes done enough followup in genomic structure to show the saprophytic way that the plant kingdom has taken up animal protein, like in lichens. and evolution has weeded out the Uracil

It was also she that first proposed that eukary organalles were hoovered bacteria, wasn't it?

DAMN STRAIGHT

Still haven't read her. And leisure reading just isn't happening nowadays. I'll get there eventually...





REX RED -- I also enjoy your posts, by the way. A lot of times both science and religion lose their poetry...

I am still back on the fossil records thing...

One thing obvious about the fossils. They are representations of the body part of humans and other organisms. If there is a spirit or soul this is found in the few trinkets and possessions buried with them. So the earth may have a grave but it only gives up the body.

Theists speculate that the body is the least part of a human...

When Jesus returned from the grave after his burial the records portray him with this "new" body and face that could change shape. Also he could descend into hell in one moments time and unlock the chained angels from the flood and then moments later fly clear up into the firmament.
Jesus could "evolve" in an instant.
This the Bible calls, "the new body". Wish I had one

I will comment on RNA but I am learning more listening to you all...

Farmerman. oncerning the beginning of how "IT" all got started, what is the current accepted theory...Big Bang, String, Intellegent Design or ????? To understand where everyone is comming from on the evolutionist side I wanted to know what you all agreed on.

Here is something I thought up about cellular mutation and symbiosis..

I made this diagram.

Tell me what you think of it.

It is rather crude but it does explain things.

http://rexred.com/symbiosis.html

I dont really believe that, among the geologists and evolutionary biologists , there is a single accepted hypothesis that is as well developed and evidenced as is organic evolution( which, of course, requires that life has already been begun). I can think of at least 3 different hypotheses on the development of "self replecating organic chemicals and life" each having to do with
1clay substrates
2methanogenic reactions
3self assembly and an RNA world

PAnspermia

The Big Bang merely presents a chronology in which the elements appear in an order

Im trying to wrap my mind about M theory and havent been succeessful to this point. There are too many contingencies to make me fullfilled.

So , a short answer is, I dont know. Once life started however , I can follow the evidence and test the outcomes AND, probably most importantly, Im convinced that the role of evolution has been a purely adaptive mechanism to a geologically dynamic environment.Nothing more
(Too many twists and turns in earths history to believe in an Intelligent Designer.
The role of adaptation has not been to "design " the perfectmodel but to adapt by a number of different potential body plans and let nature sort em out.
Since my background has always been applied, Ive never had my own dog in the fight regarding how life formed and by what circumstance. Im a true , full, and symmetrical agnostic. I usually say
"Oh YEH"? at conferences and join the fray for fun and games.
By saying so, I have to admit profound ignorance of either means or motives. As a scientist I abhor "ready made" arguments that arent well crafted by evidence, since theres no good evidence of origins of life in an early plastic planet, all we can do is play hypotheses.
The only way that hypotheses will be elevated into theories will be if we continue our colonization of planets and begin to find widely different strains of life or life in the past.
Thats why the Rover project is especially fascinating geologically. We are seeing processes that have occured right yhere at home on a different planet. I think were gonna see a world that had, in the past, lost its mantle core coupling and thus its atmosphere. It appears that most of the oxygen got tied up as oxides and sulphosalts so life, if it exists, would have to be some kind of extremophilic form where redox may be a metabolic reaction.

The issue of the beginning of evolutionary life forms is unknown. Science has the capacity to make theories about such matters, but I'm not totally convinced about the big bang theory. It's my personal humble opinion that liquid and the proper envronment was the cause.

Well of course... they Know how it ends up.

http://www.volcanoesofthedeepsea.com/

I've seen the film by the way. It's spectacular.

Luckily the IMAX theaters near Boston have chosen to carry the film.

Farmerman thank you for the thoughtful reply. I truly appreciate your answer. If you like to stir things up, maybe if it is nearby, you could check this out http://www.answersingenesis.org/events/details.aspx?Event_ID=3530 Ken Ham like to engage in debate.

BTW Farmerman, aways back you made mention of certain people monitoring this forum and some government hearings or research or something...please enlighten me. Thanks, Jack

Long debate
Grand duke wrote waaaaaaaaaaay back on page ONE
So, here we are on page 76, let's not stop now

Just for fun
Link to a cartoon I thought was fun and on topic
http://www.answersingenesis.org/aftereden/view.aspx?id=167