RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2005 10:56 pm
El-Diablo wrote:
Quote:
The snakes are probably at the top of the chain of species that don't have arms and legs.

Humans are smart enough to fly and make devices to see most every spectrum of light and in the dark too. But where did we get so smart?

Humans have the most complex facial structure the cat is second.



The facial part is pretty cool. Cat is second huh? I believe it when i think of tigers and lions and other fleines.

I'll take your bait and tell you that evolution gave humans intelligence.


Perhaps... but what do we do with all of this intelligence without a guide? How can we ever know what lies around the corner unless we have another view from outside of our own perspective?
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Sat 19 Mar, 2005 11:07 pm
roger wrote:
Well, of course. Those poor, hairless, defenseless creatures that didn't have enough intelligence to compensate for lack of fangs, claws, and great strength mostly died too young to reproduce.


I heard once that if we had a massive asteroid or super volcanic explosion happen that humans might die completely off but rats could quite possibly survive and evolve into the next humans. Much of science believes that humans are at the end of their evolutionary cycle but rats are at the beginning or theirs.

also I heard tonight that they are sequencing the rice genome.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:16 am
Farmerman wrote:
Quote:
...and jack off that...
That's a good one…haven't heard that one before…yeah right. Just call me Jack. OK? When you have the name Jack for over 40 years you hear them all…even some you probably haven't heard. (I wonder if president Kennedy had to endure any of this?) When you resort to name calling you lower yourself to the lowest common denominator…(I believe this is de-evolution).
Now as I understand it, evolution is the addition/creation of new genetic material. Is this a correct assumption? Look at the peppered moth, we see moths that are…well, peppered in color. As they "evolved" they turned to black. In nature whenever we see these mutations we see the loss of genetic information. Let's look at the fruit fly thing: the "new species" of fruit fly can't mate with the old one. WHY, because there was a loss of genetic information during this mutation. What advantage did these new fruit flies gain by mutating? Are they any better off to live in the wild due to their mutation? Are they a "fitter species"?
Thank you Bilikner for the input about the big bang and the material not being able to form into planets. Every time I see an explosion all I see is destruction. Remember lighting firecrackers? You used them to destroy something. How about the nuclear bombs? After all, this was more on the lines of the big bang, being atomic and all. Have we seen these produce new life? (Ask the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Lets take it another step; a super nova…Any new life out there?…perhaps any alien life forms lurking about would like to respond to this. I didn't think so. Of course the evolutionists have to invent a new theory for the planets forming, one that doesn't conflict with their theory of how man was created from a lowly protozoa. The only thing I ever created by exploding a firecracker was a bunch of mutated ants...many missing legs, thoraxes and heads Shocked
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 12:21 am
Farmerman Wrote
Quote:
grasping there jackoff.
OOOH Shocked I must have hit a nerve.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 01:29 am
Biliskner, you guys down under have some of the best Christian bands.News Boys,Rebecca St.James etc. I haven't seen much scripture on this thread, but perhaps this will get some to thinking. 1 Corinthians 2:13-15 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
13These things we also speak, not in words which man's wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 15But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one.
or
1 Corinthians 3:18-20 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
18Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. 19For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; 20and again, "The LORD knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."
Footnotes:
1 Corinthians 3:19 Job 5:13
1 Corinthians 3:20 Psalm 94:11
How about this one
Ephesians 4:13-15 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
13till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; 14that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, 15but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head--Christ--
I hope all the evolutionists have their knee pads ready because...
Philippians 2:9-11 (New King James Version)
New King James Version (NKJV)
Copyright © 1982 by Thomas Nelson, Inc.
9Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Now for all you evolutionists out there this doesn't prove evolution or creation, but just confirms what has happened on this thread and what will happen in the future. If you are atheist then you won't listen any way and just slap this back in my (our) face(s) and say that we speak doubletalk. My concern for anyone reading this thread is the salvation of your soul through Jesus Christ. You will accuse me of getting on the fairy tale bandwagon, but there it is like it or not. LIES LIES you say...so be it.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 02:09 am
Biliskner wrote
Quote:
but that doesn't invalidate Jesus as Lord over the universe. like i've said, and will say again, even you can't change history. you can call us "jackoffs" and then say "you're not taking any heat" in the same sentence, but if you're going to, let's try come consistency.
your own words eat your own actions.
it's been nice having a "civilized debate" with you.

I think we need to take these infidels to task and as in my above post show them the truth, however they will not accept it. BTW I think they were calling me a J---Off as I use Jackofalltrades as my login name. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they hit the f key twice :wink:
As far as the Answers In Genesis debate goes, they are trying to do a good job of defending the gospel, it is too bad that they don't have a mega buck budget to hire more creationist scientists to help do the research. There are a lot more of these creationist scientists out there than we realize, but unfortunately they tend to keep quiet for the most part, perhaps they are afraid of the consequences if they did...funding being stopped, getting barred from research labs etc.
0 Replies
 
Jackofalltrades
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 02:33 am
Other places to look
Seems Answers in Genesis isn't the only one to defend the gospel and show that when the bible shows scientific principals they are accurate.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencebible.html
http://www.geocities.com/dmathew1/weekly/weekly51.htm
http://www.gospelway.com/creation/
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:21 am
Biliskner wrote:
cicerone imposter wrote:
I don't believe in mass penalty; Adam and Eve made a mistake, and all humans must pay for their 'mistake.' That contradicts any sense of "a loving god." Eating an apple for chrissakes is not equal to the sufferings of mankind no matter how one twists the story.


you don't believe in mass penalty? damn, you mustn't have any compassion for any of the generations born during/after the war...

you live in a society built by people, populated by people and run by people... how can you not believe in mass penalty? you're in it everyday! (or do you work from home and never have to travel during peak hour traffic?)


cicerone imposter wrote:
ha ha ha ha...I've been to Bangkok and Cairo where "traffic jams" are the mother of them all... ha ha ha


so you do believe in mass penalty.
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:24 am
RexRed wrote:

Did you miss it? I posted the reply about the billions of years in Genesis lastnight in this post I believe. Read back a few pages and you will find the explanation. Took me a while to write. Thx for inquiring about it. It is on page 55 if our pages are the same.


found it. good stuff. i'll read it and "cross-check it" - if you know what i mean. :wink:
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:30 am
RexRed wrote:
roger wrote:
Well, of course. Those poor, hairless, defenseless creatures that didn't have enough intelligence to compensate for lack of fangs, claws, and great strength mostly died too young to reproduce.


I heard once that if we had a massive asteroid or super volcanic explosion happen that humans might die completely off but rats could quite possibly survive and evolve into the next humans. Much of science believes that humans are at the end of their evolutionary cycle but rats are at the beginning or theirs.

also I heard tonight that they are sequencing the rice genome.


did some bioinformatics on that. rice and barley genomes are similar, but damn it's hard to find the "roots" of a common ancestor.
to keep the thread on the ball, even if we do find that the rice and barley genome "evolved" from the same "common ancestor", Creationists can explain that by saying that they were "species of the same kind"... but i'll stop there, since there'll be some stuff some will understand in there, and some that won't Very Happy
on the other hand, writing scripts to search that massive database ncbi is always fun.
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 05:39 am
Jackofalltrades wrote:

In nature whenever we see these mutations we see the loss of genetic information.


that's right. there is no evidence of the addition of NEW genetic information, anywhere, period. so inferring from that we'll probably get more creationist geneticists rather than anyone from any other disciplines.


Jackofalltrades wrote:

Thank you Bilikner for the input about the big bang and the material not being able to form into planets. Every time I see an explosion all I see is destruction. Remember lighting firecrackers? You used them to destroy something. How about the nuclear bombs? After all, this was more on the lines of the big bang, being atomic and all. Have we seen these produce new life? (Ask the folks in Hiroshima and Nagasaki). Lets take it another step; a super nova…Any new life out there?…perhaps any alien life forms lurking about would like to respond to this. I didn't think so. Of course the evolutionists have to invent a new theory for the planets forming, one that doesn't conflict with their theory of how man was created from a lowly protozoa. The only thing I ever created by exploding a firecracker was a bunch of mutated ants...many missing legs, thoraxes and heads Shocked


thought experiment:
take two objects of hard, stiff compounds. take one and smash it against the other. what happens? they both break, into SMALLER pieces, now you'll probably have instead of 2 hard objects, about 60 objects of different sizes.
now astrophysicists of the Disc Theory expect us to take those very physical experiments and implement it into the solar system's formation. take two giant asteroids of hard, stiff (yet somewhat brittle) compounds, and smash them together... to form the planet earth. do that 8-9 times and get our solar system. lol? i say LOL! and why do they stick to this theory? 'cos it gives us an age (MYO) long universe, nothing more. that sounds absurd? well, that makes 2 of us.
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 06:13 am
Jackofalltrades wrote:
Biliskner, you guys down under have some of the best Christian bands.News Boys,Rebecca St.James etc. I haven't seen much scripture on this thread, but perhaps this will get some to thinking.


well i have been very blessed to have some great Christian friends who sat patiently with me through endless nights till the wee morning talking to me about predestination, evolutionary theory, what about other religions, who Jesus was, what the Church has to answer for in the past 2 millenia, Church leaders, and other such problems i had before i became a Christian. The Christian Union at MelbUni has gotta be the most Gospel focussed Christian group I've ever seen, intellectual, yet pragmatic (Hot Cross Buns this week, free food for all!)... also the Church I go to are filled with just uni students, 17-28 YOs so I can relate to them well - we're even aptly named, "UniChurch" and God's hand has been on it since I've been there in 2000 and previous when it started up in 1979. despite all my problems, it was only reading the Gospel of Mark that made me realize Christianity is solely about you and Jesus. not you and the Church, not you and your mum, or you and your Christian friends. no one else can intercede for you and no one else can answer for you. so those other "problems" i had became trivial upon arriving unto the "Jesus Question."

just remember to pray for them. this is a Spiritual battle, the disciples of Christ did not know Jesus was talking to them after the resurrection until Christ opened their eyes to the Scriptures, there is no substitute for God's intervention.

you're right about the Christian music, but you americans have some good stuff too - dc Talk, Third Day (heard them live in Jan, awesome!), Audio Adrenaline, Sonic Flood etc.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:15 am
Quote:
I think we need to take these infidels to task and as in my above post show them the truth, however they will not accept it. BTW I think they were calling me a J---Off as I use Jackofalltrades as my login name. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they hit the f key twice [Wink]


INFIDEL, wow , Ive come up a notch.

No jack I purposely hit the jackoff key . After you
misapplied your revisionist "history" I had to take time to respond about the truth re Russian science under Stalin(remember lysenko)

The fact that Hitler was a young earth
creationist

Davenport was funded by Preston Bush also and his sponsors merely were looking for ways to slow immigration. I mentioned a more dispassionate, scholarly view of all your lies in the LEGACY OF MALTHUS

As far as truth, Im a 30 year veteran scientist in 2 disciplines with lots of "stick time" listening to Creationist mumbo jumbo. Im only here because , this thread will be available to parties involved in the Dover Pa case (your ilk wish to keep that quiet because you want to snip away the establishment clause of the Bill of Rights by your intolerant pushing of your religious views into law when youve always had the right to be heard inschools, now you want special legislation).

Im here to keep reminding the other people,who, open to free pursuit of scientific evidence and objective evaluation of data,that they should not to lose sight of the fact that your only goal is to be the only religious movement to acquire special legislation (via Supreme Court decisions) to get around the "establishment clause"

Your science is lame and hackneyed retreads of arguments posted by Morris almost 30 years ago. As we continually keep"pulling back the curtain' in the dark areas of scientific discovery, you have to keep backing off to a new retreat point. You all know and we all know.In 1995, when I first was testifying in front of Pas legislators about science standards in high schools so that transitions to colleges dont require "remedial biology and chemistry and others", the arguments by Creationists and their newly formed band of Intelligent Design proponents, included the "evidence for theflood" and the "gaps in the fossil record" Now that thousands of new fossil intermediates have closed debate on such animals as whales, birds, cichlid fish, insect families, angiosperm plants, and the basal Isua,(and many many more) the Creationists have been pretty quiet since they only put out false information on "insider websites" and havent tried to enter discussions in peered journals.

BTWWeve extended recent sediment dating back to almost 900000 years from the Greenland Ice sheet and weve taken tree rings cross- dating back to almost 50000. THIS IS ONLY RECENT DATING and it already blows your young earth crap out of the water.
When scientists testify, they usually lose the audience from the insider jargon of their craft. I like to practice with the simpler concepts that can be obviously proven, because if youre wrong on one item (showing that animals evolved in our time) then your wrong period, because your"science" is a packaged deal. You buy it all or nothing.In the early days of modern Creationist though, there was a more diverse group of actual scientists who extended the debate to a logical bound

George Price was a proponent of an ancient world

Frank Lewis Wright was an old earth Creationist and a major force in the early Intelligent Design movement

Ernest Booth was a similar old earther

Byron Nelson(ditto
)
Harold Clarkwas a young earther and was an able debator but got his lunch handed to him frequently

There were some diverse opinions on the mechanisms and interpretations. It was a vital time to be a Creationist from the 30s to perhaps the 60s.
George Barry Otoole, John Kolz,Arthur Isaac Brown.
Your group has gotten almost one minded since Reagan ressurected the force. Youve adopted a borg-like mentality and now , with the Intelligent Designers coming along and stipulating to evolution and an old earth, i think that you guys should re-investigate your core beliefs or be rendered obsolete.
But , be that as it may, I wont call you jackoffd if you stop trying to spin history in a fashion that you know is untrue. Or I will take the time and document all the genocide thats occured "In the name of God(s)"
I dontcare whose, since most religion is based upon intolerance anyway, and you guys demonstrate that point most effectively
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:23 am
sigh...

In the Name of Christ (God) , Apostle Peter made lame men walk, blind men see and mute men talk.

"The more I study nature, the more I stand amazed at the work of the Creator." "Science brings men nearer to God."
- Louis Pasteur [1822-1895]

For the Glory of the Lord God may you see the love of Jesus Christ for you.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 07:46 am
(((((EVEN BIGGER HEWMONGOUS SIGH))))))))

"Nothing in biology makes sense escept in the light of evolutionary theory" Fyodor Dobzhansky
Quote:
that's right. there is no evidence of the addition of NEW genetic information, anywhere, period. so inferring from that we'll probably get more creationist geneticists rather than anyone from any other disciplines.


STOP THE PRESSES, somebody better call Jim Watson, Lynne Margulis,Doug Futuyama,and all the folks over at Celera that theyve been working with the wrong evidence all these years. Gee I hope this doesnt affect all the drug tests goin on. Probably will though, better drop my stock in *********.

I will see you all later.Even agnostics like to sing in the choir
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 08:43 am
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 08:44 am
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 08:44 am
i somewhat plagerized that...

Very Happy
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 08:46 am
overview, non-technical:

"A big obstacle for evolutionary belief is this: What mechanism could possibly have added all the extra information required to transform a one-celled creature progressively into pelicans, palm trees, and people? Natural selection alone can't do it - selection involves getting rid of information. A group of creatures might become more adapted to the cold, for example, by the elimination of those which don't carry the genetic information to make thick fur. But that doesn't explain the origin of the information to make thick fur."
0 Replies
 
Biliskner
 
  1  
Reply Sun 20 Mar, 2005 08:46 am
for more:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/docs/508.asp
0 Replies
 
 

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