rosborne979 wrote:real life wrote:Hi Farmerman,
My only point was that Catholics (and other theistic evolutionists) basically are IDers. They believe in God as creator and teach evolution as the process.
There is a difference between ID and Deism. As far as I know, ID'ers don't only assert that God put it all in motion, but also tweaked it along the way.
I think Deism is more of a "spirit behind the nature" type of belief. I myself might be considered Deist, because I don't rule out the possibility of some "essence" outside of nature which might have fused with nature to generate the result we see.
So I don't think you are being accurate when you lump Catholics and ID'ers into the same bucket simply because they both say "God is creator, and evolution the process". ID leans very strongly toward an interaction in the process by God, not simply an essence of the process itself. A subtle difference, but am important one.
Hi Ros,
That's true what you are saying about some IDers. Different groups or individuals have differing ideas about how much or how often they think God (or whatever Designer they may postulate. Not all see it as God.) may have 'tweaked' the universe after initial creation.
That is why I look at the idea of Intelligent Design as a superset, with various subsets.
The concept of an Intelligent Designer, in and of itself , is a very basic idea. IDers take the view that natural processes alone are an insufficient explanation for the universe we see and the life in it.
Subsets of the ID concept would include (but not necessarily limited to):
--Theistic evolutionists (some Christian, some Jewish, some Islamic, some of other deistic beliefs that have a similar concept of an all powerful Being who created the universe ) This is, without a doubt, the most overlooked group of IDers.
--Non theistic evolutionists -- this would include such diverse ideas as Panspermia, notably represented by folks like Sir Fred Hoyle, who believed that since there was insufficient time in the postulated life span of the Earth for life to have evolved to it's current level, therefore life must have evolved elsewhere and the present array of life on Earth was planted by super-intelligent beings from outer space.
--Direct Creationists (often just termed 'Creationists'. But since this term could also, with some accuracy, be applied to theistic evolutionists as they hold the idea of a creating God, a more precise term, distinguishing the two, is to be preferred so as to aid in understanding just what or who is being referred to.) -- again these are some Christian , some Jewish, some Islamic, some of other deistic beliefs with a similar concept of a creating God. (These would also often , although not by necessity, be young earthers. There are also old earthers among this group.)
