Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:09 am
Questioner wrote:
Brandon9000 wrote:
real life wrote:
It would seem a little odd if I said that the only way I would believe in the existence of sound is if I could smell it.

Or that I would not believe that light exists unless I could taste it.

You state that you will not believe in a transcendent Being such as God unless you have empirical evidence. Seems a little odd.

I will not believe that a fact is true unless I have an indication that it is true. Having the being show himself would certainly be sufficient. Failing that, I will only accept evidence that comes from reason.


This may seem slightly pendantic, but start with "What was there before the Big Bang" and see where you end up. Not saying anything will be different in your mind, merely stressing that "evidence" isn't always empirical and as such, can sometimes be no more than a good guess.

As for having the being show itself. . . if only it were that easy. Confused

Having two degrees in Physics, I know enough to know that the dynamics of the Big Bang, the first second of existence of the cosmos, the prior cause of the Big Bang, etc. are not beyond human grasp, and that this is an active field of research in theoretical Physics. I believe this is the provice of Quantum Electrodynamics. However, even were this not true, the fact that a scientific explanation for something is temporarily unknown, as the causes of thunder and lightning once were, or even too complex for the human mind to understand, is no indication that the explanation is supernatural. You are advocating one theory of the structure of the universe, and no frameork for understanding these things except science is capable of successful verification as a method when tested.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:20 am
neologist wrote:
Once again I must remind you that our perceptions of reality are limited by the constructs of space and time. Though we are aware of the existence of other 'dimensions', we are unable to accurately articulate their nature, much less explore their boundaries.

Sorry, but you lack the background. Even with a couple of Physics degrees, this work is over my head, but I know people doing it, and your idea that we are able to articulate theories of the nature of universes of more than four dimensions is wrong. For instance, I believe that one popular current model, the Supergravity model, of the universe is a quantum theory of gravity in ten dimensions (9 space + 1 time). The extra 6 spatial dimensions are supposed to be compactified to a region of the order of Planck length. Don't talk about what you don't know about.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:22 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
Quote:
Not odd, logical.


How is trying to sense the undetectible 'logical'?

Science is not trying to "sense" the undetectable. Science tries to apply logical deuduction and experiment to figure out how things, like the universe, work.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:25 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
neologist wrote:
Once again I must remind you that our perceptions of reality are limited by the constructs of space and time. Though we are aware of the existence of other 'dimensions', we are unable to accurately articulate their nature, much less explore their boundaries.

Sorry, but you lack the background. Even with a couple of Physics degrees, this work is over my head, but I know people doing it, and your idea that we are able to articulate theories of the nature of universes of more than four dimensions is wrong. For instance, I believe that one popular current model, the Supergravity model, of the universe is a quantum theory of gravity in ten dimensions (9 space + 1 time). The extra 6 spatial dimensions are supposed to be compactified to a region of the order of Planck length. Don't talk about what you don't know about.

Sorry, I meant "unable."
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:32 am
The human brain has the capacity to perceive as real those things we/others cannot see or prove by physical evidence. Did you see the movie "The Beautiful Mind?" It's based on a true story. Therefore, it is not odd, but logical.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:49 am
cicerone imposter wrote:
The human brain has the capacity to perceive as real those things we/others cannot see or prove by physical evidence. Did you see the movie "The Beautiful Mind?" It's based on a true story. Therefore, it is not odd, but logical.

C.I.,

I don't understand how you can refer to this. The man in this movie was suffering from a mental illness. So, I don't see how logic can be applied in anyway to that.

If he had a mental illness then what he saw in his mind was not there and in no way could be there.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 10:58 am
Brandon9000 wrote:
neologist wrote:
Once again I must remind you that our perceptions of reality are limited by the constructs of space and time. Though we are aware of the existence of other 'dimensions', we are unable to accurately articulate their nature, much less explore their boundaries.

Sorry, but you lack the background. Even with a couple of Physics degrees, this work is over my head, but I know people doing it, and your idea that we are able to articulate theories of the nature of universes of more than four dimensions is wrong. For instance, I believe that one popular current model, the Supergravity model, of the universe is a quantum theory of gravity in ten dimensions (9 space + 1 time). The extra 6 spatial dimensions are supposed to be compactified to a region of the order of Planck length. Don't talk about what you don't know about.
Sorry I used the word 'dimensions'. Did you say 9 space and 1 time? I thought so. Even with a mensa IQ, I can't understand it. But I'm grateful that my friend, Joe Sixpack, has an equal chance to understand God's will. What aggravates me is the idea that one has to be a member of some elite in order understand the meaning of his life.
0 Replies
 
Rex the Wonder Squirrel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 11:56 am
cicerone_imposter wrote:
Not odd, logical.


Uh huh. That's about as logical as cheddar-flavored light.
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 12:39 pm
Rex the Wonder Squirrel wrote:
cicerone_imposter wrote:
Not odd, logical.


Uh huh. That's about as logical as cheddar-flavored light.

Rex the Wonder ~ love your Avatar! My favorite role for Val Kilmer!

I have to agree with you on the cheddar-flavored light thing.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 01:59 pm
Quote:
The plate tectonics thing and all that, ya know? If all the land mass was connected at some point, I don't see what the problem is.

The problem is;
Gondwanaland started breaking up 200,000,000 years ago. Humans appeared on earth between 150,000 to 100,000 thousand years ago.

Many species of today's animals evolved long after Gondwanaland broke up. They became isolated because of the breakup. Isolation and new environments caused existing animals to evolve into new species.

By the way, when did Noah's Flood occur? When Gondwanaland was in existence? Could not have happened; there was no Noah.

If you think the breakup occurred after the Flood show me the science. If this is what really happened then where is the evidence.

And please, PLEASE: don't insult our intelligence by trying to con us into believing the Grand Canyon, with a width of 4 to 12 miles and a depth of over one mile, was created in the last 4,300 hundred years.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:16 pm
Quote:
The human brain has the capacity to perceive as real those things we/others cannot see or prove by physical evidence.


How come Catholics are the only one's to see Virgin Mary apparitions? There may be a few Protestants that see them but I'm not aware of any.

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0078a.html

http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/cri/cri-jrnl/web/crj0079a.html
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 02:27 pm
Those are some of the mysteries of religion that I can't answer.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:41 pm
I remember one time in a small town in the coal regions of PA, the Blessed Mother appeared on the side of a refrigerator. Crowds came from all over, and the near by church (and I swear to , uhhhm... my dog ERnie) that they were selling water kept in the frig. The priest would bless it and theyd sell it to the crowds. I hadda go with my parents to see the Holy Kenmore with the Virgin MAry reflected on its side.

It was about then that I started seriously questioning the sanity of the devout.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 03:48 pm
So, what's your problem with entertainment?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:32 pm
And making a little dough on the side....
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:36 pm
xingu, They don't need apparitions to make money. What I've noticed from world travel is the fact that no matter how poor the populace, they seem to have beautiful churches. I remember seeing a church in India where the dome is made of gold.
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:37 pm
If you think Virgin Marys on refrigerators is strange check this out;

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/H/Ho/Holy_Prepuce.htm
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:44 pm
That is toooooo funny!
0 Replies
 
Arella Mae
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:46 pm
cicerone imposter wrote:
That is toooooo funny!

Actually, C.I., I find it terribly offensive. And there are those that wonder why we get upset by some of the things said and done? Is there nothing sacred at all?
0 Replies
 
xingu
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Oct, 2005 05:47 pm
Actually, I think it's sad. It goes to show the pure nonsense some overly religious people will believe. It's as true today as a thousand years ago.
0 Replies
 
 

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