Evolution? How?

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Frank.....

Can you provide me with absolute proof that your wife/mate loves you?

Absolutely not.

Then why are we even having this discussion? We can no more prove to you the existence of our God, who loves us, than you can proof that your mate loves you.

Intrepid wrote:

Frank Apisa wrote:

Intrepid wrote:

Frank.....

Can you provide me with absolute proof that your wife/mate loves you?

Absolutely not.

Then why are we even having this discussion? We can no more prove to you the existence of our God, who loves us, than you can proof that your mate loves you.

Intrepid...this discussion started when you wrote the words, "I know there is a God."

At that point, I asked: "How do you know there is a God?"

You then asked me if I could provide you with absolute proof that my wife/mate loves me....

...and I said "absolutely not."


At no point did I ask you for proof that your god exists...or that your god loves you.

All I asked is how you KNOW there is a God.

Why are you creating this strawman?

I ask again (I think this is the fourth time): How do you KNOW there is a God?

Or is it simply something you are accepting...which is to say, something you are guessing to be so?

Well put Intrepid!

brahmin,

I would like to ask you a question. Why is it that you would accept the writings of even non-published works over the Bible? The Bible has always been the most sold and widely known book there ever was. I just don't understand why you would take the word of man over the word of God.

The truthful answer is that I cannot know with absolute provable certainty. I cannot prove the existence of God, but there are many reasons why belief in God is reasonable. The first is that nothing science has discovered explains the existence of the universe.

It could be reasoned that the universe has always existed and has an infinite past. It could also be reasoned that the universe was popped into existence from nothing with absolutely no cause. Or, the universe was caused to exist by something outside of it.

The world in all its beautiful complexity points to the existence of a Creator, God. In every part of the world today and throughout history, men and women have always believed and worshipped God. Sure, this is not proof, but I choose to believe it. If you consider it guessing, who am I to take that privilege away from you.

I believe in God. You are not sure. Others do not believe in God. None of us can prove, without a doubt, that they are correct in their assumptions.

Yes, I believe through faith. You do not. Which one of us is wrong? Is it fair for either of us to mock or ridicule the other's position? Yes, you have done that. I have not done that. The only absolute is that one of the 3 choices is correct. I reserve the right to make my choice without reservation. If anyone has issue with that, then that is up to them to deal with.... not me.

MA, this is an error that you make quite often, please allow me to point it out to you.

At no time, and in no way in a debate of any kind can you make the claim that the bible is the word of god. The reasons should be obvious, but just to reiterate, 1) there is no proof that god exists, 2) there is no proof that even if god did exist, that this book is in anyway inspired by him.

Without those proofs, you have no leg to stand on when asking the above question. The word of man at least can be heard with our own ears, even if the facts or opinions stated aren't always acceptable. We know the man said what he said.

As to the bible being the most widely sold book. . . . that's a nice factoid to state, but is rather less important than it sounds. When you have an organized religion as wide-spread as christianity that only has 1 real textbook to go along with it, you should expect that book to sell more copies than Harry Potter or some other comparable novel.

Frank,

I had asked you either earlier in this thread or in a different one why you were so adamant about wanting us Christians to stick to the strictest meaning of some words; such as guesses and know. I don't need an answer anymore. You just told me why in your post to Intrepid.

Questioner Wrote:

Quote:

MA, this is an error that you make quite often, please allow me to point it out to you.

At no time, and in no way in a debate of any kind can you make the claim that the bible is the word of god. The reasons should be obvious, but just to reiterate, 1) there is no proof that god exists, 2) there is no proof that even if god did exist, that this book is in anyway inspired by him.

Without those proofs, you have no leg to stand on when asking the above question. The word of man at least can be heard with our own ears, even if the facts or opinions stated aren't always acceptable. We know the man said what he said.

As to the bible being the most widely sold book. . . . that's a nice factoid to state, but is rather less important than it sounds. When you have an organized religion as wide-spread as christianity that only has 1 real textbook to go along with it, you should expect that book to sell more copies than Harry Potter or some other comparable novel.

I am going to assume you mean in your opinion there is 1) no proof that God exists, etc. Perhaps proof has different meanings for us?

We accept that what scientists write in books is true. We accept that the definitions in the dictionary are true. Well, where did all that come from? It came from man. Man wrote the science books and man decided what the words and definitions were and those change all the time. Yet, we accept this. We accept this to accommodate our wants and needs and not God's.

Why do you suppose that 80% of the world believes in Christianity? Because we are all deluded? Logically speaking, if only 20% of the population believed in one thing and 80% of the population believed in something else it doesn't make either side 100% correct but it sure changes the odds.

Intrepid wrote:

The truthful answer is that I cannot know with absolute provable certainty. I cannot prove the existence of God, but there are many reasons why belief in God is reasonable. The first is that nothing science has discovered explains the existence of the universe.

It could be reasoned that the universe has always existed and has an infinite past. It could also be reasoned that the universe was popped into existence from nothing with absolutely no cause. Or, the universe was caused to exist by something outside of it.

The world in all its beautiful complexity points to the existence of a Creator, God. In every part of the world today and throughout history, men and women have always believed and worshipped God. Sure, this is not proof, but I choose to believe it. If you consider it guessing, who am I to take that privilege away from you.

I believe in God. You are not sure. Others do not believe in God. None of us can prove, without a doubt, that they are correct in their assumptions.

Yes, I believe through faith. You do not. Which one of us is wrong? Is it fair for either of us to mock or ridicule the other's position? Yes, you have done that. I have not done that. The only absolute is that one of the 3 choices is correct. I reserve the right to make my choice without reservation. If anyone has issue with that, then that is up to them to deal with.... not me.

You wrote: I KNOW THERE IS A GOD.

I questioned that.

Now you are acknowledging that you do not KNOW there is a God...but that it is a "belief" of yours.

And you are giving me a bunch of crap about it.

What is your problem?

You were the one proudly proclaiming that you KNEW there was a God.

You lied!

I called you on it.

So neither of us KNOWS if there is a God....

...and you are trying to make it sound like there is something wrong with my saying "I do not know if there is a God"....and by inference, defending your blatant lie that you do KNOW there is a God.

This is laughable.

If you want to give advice and if you want to lecture people...give advice and lecture yourself...not me. You need it...I don't.

C'mon, MA!

Intrepid specifically said that he KNEW there was a god.

I gave him the opportunity to change that to "believe" or "guess" there is a god...and he insisted. He repeated that he KNEW there was a god.

I asked again: How do you know.

After a bunch of running around the question...he finally answered and admitted that he does not KNOW...he "believes."

Words have to mean what they mean!

Say "I am guessing there is a god."

MA, With your penchant for circular logic, there's no need for me to do anything you ask. However, I would suggest you look in the bible about "love thy neighbor."

MA, With your penchant for circular logic, there's no need for me to do anything you ask. However, I would suggest you look in the bible about "love thy neighbor."

Frank, this is a bad spot for Christians. The bible asks us to believe whole-heartedly in God, yet we still don't have the kind of 'evidence' that is required to 'prove' to you or to anyone God's existence. So what are we left to do? We can say that the prophecy in the bible is only accountable by divine intervention, and the miracles as well. As far as some rock or scientific fact that shows God, I doubt there is any. What do we say to other people about it?