8
   

Freedom of Speech on Campus Should be Protected

 
 
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 12:03 am
@realjohnboy,
Quote:
UVA confirms that Marc Short, a senior aide to Trump until earlier this month, will be coming to Charlottesville to teach in the fall. He will be at the business school (from which I received an MBA, by the way) and also at the Miller Center.


Doesn't it bother you that this guy would be an aide to a serial liar? Great qualifications for a professor!
0 Replies
 
Olivier5
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 03:47 am
@maporsche,
I think it's naïve to consider free speech as an absolute right. First because all human rights have to be weighted against one another. Preaching hatred for entire populations is endangering their right to life, which to me trumps the right to free speech.

Second, because in this particular case, universities are places to learn particular sets of ideas and methods that have been validated by experience, not places where any and all ideas are defined as equal.

Taking an extreme example, the idea that 2 + 2 = 5 has no place in any university, other than as a joke.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 06:40 am
@Olivier5,
Olivier5 wrote:

I think it's naïve to consider free speech as an absolute right. First because all human rights have to be weighted against one another. Preaching hatred for entire populations is endangering their right to life, which to me trumps the right to free speech.


That would be naive. I don't think anyone would argue that it's an absolute right. I'm certainly not. Why argue from the extremes? Easier?

Quote:

Second, because in this particular case, universities are places to learn particular sets of ideas and methods that have been validated by experience, not places where any and all ideas are defined as equal.


Classrooms are places to learn. Universities are places for many other things, like sports, parties, and lectures from invited guests.

But regardless, some of the people who have been dis-invited are simply exposing a different set of ideas and methods but ideas and methods that are in the mainstream of politics (read: conservatives).
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 07:01 am
In this case, who actually needs "protection"?



Kent State University graduate whose photos with AR-10 went viral to host campus gun rally

Updated 10:28 AM; Posted 10:28 AM
Kaitlin Bennett's Big Pro-Gun Rally Speech: No More Compromise


By Emily Bamforth, cleveland.com [email protected]

CLEVELAND, Ohio -- Kaitlin Bennett, the Kent State University graduate who gained Internet fame with graduation photos where she posed with an AR-10, will host an open carry rally at the university this fall.

Bennett posed with the gun to protest the university's weapons policy. Kent State bans students, staff, faculty and people doing business with the university from carrying "deadly weapons" on its campus, which includes firearms and explosive devices.

Since Bennett is no longer a student or person doing business with the university, she is allowed to carry a weapon outside on campus. She will host a rally at Kent State Sept.29.

She tweeted about the rally Friday night, writing that she plans to bring out a great lineup of speakers.

The advertisement attached prompts people to join "Liberty Hangout, Infowars and the 'triggered Millennials'" at the rally.


Kaitlin Bennett
@KaitMarieox
On September 29th, I will be returning to Kent State to host an open carry rally. We plan on bringing out a great lineup of speakers, and appreciate any help we can get to make this the greatest gun rally of the year! #KSUOpenCarryRally https://www.gofundme.com/kait-bennett039s-kent-state-gun-rally

5:25 PM - Aug 10, 2018

Kait Bennett's Kent State Gun Rally
On Saturday, September 29th, Kaitlin Bennett will be hosting an open carry rally at Kent State University. The rally comes just months after her graduation photos bearing an AR-10 rifle at the scho...

In the spring, Bennett, as the founder of Kent State's chapter of the "right-leaning Libertarian" group Liberty Hangout, organized an open-carry walk on campus. About 40 people protested, according to the Record-Courier.

Since her graduation photos went viral in May, Bennett went on Fox & Friends and spoke to outlets like the Washington Post to explain her photos.

She now has more than 94,000 Twitter followers and uses her account to face off with gun-control advocates. Bennett drew attention when she challenged David Hogg, a survivor of the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Florida, to an arm wrestling match.

She is now the grassroots director of Liberty Hangout.

The initial graduation photo now has more than 9,200 retweets and 7,500 replies.

Kaitlin Bennett
@KaitMarieox
Now that I graduated from @KentState, I can finally arm myself on campus. I should have been able to do so as a student- especially since 4 unarmed students were shot and killed by the government on this campus. #CampusCarryNow

12:19 PM - May 13, 2018

Visitors to campus can't carry weapons into school buildings, but can have them on property.

On May 4, 1970, four students were killed and nine were wounded at Kent State after the Ohio National Guard opened fire on a crowd of students who were protesting the war in Vietnam. The shooting sparked student-led strikes which closed universities across the country.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 07:46 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
That would be naive. I don't think anyone would argue that it's an absolute right. I'm certainly not. Why argue from the extremes? Easier?


I'd say that you are. Witness.

maporsche: "But regardless, some of the people who have been dis-invited are simply exposing a different set of ideas and methods but ideas and methods that are in the mainstream of politics (read: conservatives)."

These conservatives simply want to advance their usual racist ideas. Racist ideas that they have been duped, [encouraged, it never takes much for some] into believing after the seminal event that has caused all this, an event that is a total pack of lies, with not a shred of evidence to support it.

They couch it in such phony verbiage - "these are ideas that should be discussed, be open to the free exchange of ideas".

It's all just the new Jim Crow.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:06 am
@ehBeth,
That is really very simple EhBeth.

1. Giving a speech that contains "bigotry" or "hate speech" is free speech.
2. Protesting this speech because in your opinion it is hate speech is free speech.
3. Having a university cancel a speakers appearance based on the content of their speech... is not free speech.

When you allow speech it is free speech (on either side of any issue).
When you prohibit speech it is not free speech.

This cartoon, along with many on the left, seems to confuse the two.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:08 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
3. Having a university cancel a speakers appearance based on the content of their speech... is not free speech.


They do of course have that right Max, and in some cases may be completely justified in doing so.

In many of the cases I've seen though, they seem to not have had any good reason to cancel some of these speeches, despite their right to.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:11 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
They do of course have that right Max, and in some cases may be completely justified in doing so.


There is no case where a University is justified in preventing a speaker from speaking when there are students who want the speaker to come. And, there are many cases where they don't have this right... particularly in public universities.

Most Universities support freedom of speech as an important part of education. You can't prohibit speech and call it free speech.

By the way, MaPorsche.... aren't you supposed to be arguing the other side of this one.




camlok
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:13 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
You can't prohibit speech and call it free speech.


The hypocrisy is stunning!!!
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:44 am
@maxdancona,
You must be less creative than I guessed max.

Some speakers bring out massive protests which may bring out massive security concerns. The university does not have the requirement to provide tens of thousands of dollars in security services nor do they have to requirement to possibly invite violence to their campus.

If the speakers or students pay for security and some level of assurance from local police certifying the plan then I feel that the schools concerns should be mitigated.

When that doesn’t happen though the school COULD have a valid reason to deny an event.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:45 am
@camlok,
Camlok, I just want to check to see if you and I are on the same page on this issue.

If a Muslim student group invites an Imam who believes that the United States is a colonial power oppressing people in third world countries.... should that speaker be allowed?
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:48 am
@maporsche,
The protesters should pay for the protests. That seems pretty obvious for me.

If Fundamentalist Christians protest a Planned Parenthood speaker... the Planned Parenthood speaker should be allowed to speak, and the Fundamentalist Christians should be responsible for any disruption their protest causes....

If Feminists protest a misogynist speaker. the Misogynist speaker should be allowed to speak, and the Feminists should be responsible for any disruption their protest causes...

Free speech can't discriminate based on the political ideology of the speaker or the protesters.

I don't see why this isn't obvious.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:49 am
@maxdancona,
And my opinion and the position I’m arguing from have not changed since the first post.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:51 am
@maxdancona,
You think many of these protests or protestors would be organized?
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:52 am
@maxdancona,
You just want to control the narrative in your usual sneaky and underhanded manner, Max. That is what Americans have to do to keep the propaganda wheels rolling.

The United States is NOT a colonial power. That is like calling Nazi Germany a colonial power for its illegal invasions that set WWII in motion.

The US is a band of war criminals and terrorists that illegally invades sovereign nations under the totally phony guise of expanding freedom.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:53 am
@maporsche,
I think it is clear our little experiment has failed.

It does demonstrate the power of the in-crowd. You couldn't go up against EhBeth even when you said you would.
maxdancona
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:55 am
@camlok,
Quote:
You just want to control the narrative in your usual sneaky and underhanded manner, Max


No Camlok! The point of free speech is that it is free. People have the right to say what they believe whether it offends you or not.

EhBeth wants free speech as long as it agrees with the left. That isn't free speech.
You seem to want free speech as long as it agrees with the right. That isn't free speech either.

camlok
 
  0  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:56 am
@maporsche,
Quote:
The university does not have the requirement to provide tens of thousands of dollars in security services nor do they have to requirement to possibly invite violence to their campus.


You deny the central reason for the existence of universities.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 08:57 am
@maxdancona,
Not surprisingly I see it as having succeeded.

I took a position that you stated would bring me insults, personal attacks, and off topic digressions.

None of that happened.


You’re currently singleing out a particular poster, that’s the closest we’ve come to personal.
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Wed 22 Aug, 2018 09:02 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
No Camlok! The point of free speech is that it is free. People have the right to say what they believe whether it offends you or not.


What a laugh! You actually think the US has free speech.

Yet you think people protesting, an essential element of freedom of speech, should have to pay for any security needed in the very place that freedom of speech is supposed to occur - universities.

Quote:
EhBeth wants free speech as long as it agrees with the left. That isn't free speech.


I didn't discern that in what she has said.

Quote:
You seem to want free speech as long as it agrees with the right. That isn't free speech either.


You don't seem to have a very firm grip on reality. I have never suggested that silly notion. Your comprehension skills seem lacking.
0 Replies
 
 

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