8
   

Freedom of Speech on Campus Should be Protected

 
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 02:36 pm
@Sturgis,
Sturgis wrote:

I'll get back to you later.

Initially, I will say that while I agree with your points, I also feel the people who are planning to attend a college or university, should do their research and learn the viewpoints of the institution. The same also holds true for those who want to become educators at these places.


Thanks Sturgis.

I generally agree. I think if you're attending a right leaning or religious school you should probably not be too surprised that your atheist points of view aren't going to be tolerated very long.

But for state schools or public, non-private schools, I not only think getting that information would be very tough, but I think I have a problem with public colleges even taking a stance on the typical political sides.

Now, I think all schools should agree on things like inciting violence or harming students, but as far as political-type speech or even disgusting ideas, I like them being neutral.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:06 pm
@maporsche,
You're in America she's already part of your system. Over here she's extreme, I don't want her extremism to become acceptable.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:07 pm
I think I should also add that I prefer that the law and any legal decisions to error on the side of free speech, rather than restricting that speech.

The first amendment is that important and I think more and more we are forgetting that...although maybe the attacks on the media from this administration are reversing that view a bit.
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:08 pm
@izzythepush,
Do you feel like ideas in your country are suppressed or that you have any less 'freedom of speech' than we feel like we have in America? Do your 'conservatives' feel like their speech is suppressed?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:13 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:
Perhaps someone has already mentioned this, but here goes. Many public speakers' fees are paid from student fees.


this would be 100% a non-starter for me.

if a student special interest group wants to bring in speakers, that group of students pays for it. they then apply for a space to hold the meeting - and they pay to rent the space.

locally, most universities do not easily provide space for anything they're not going to be paid for - and paid well. they're not cheap.

special interest groups tend to have to go off-campus to find spaces to book for their proposed speakers. less expensive and they don't have to adhere to the school's standards.

there are upsides and downsides to that. they can bring in who they want - that they can afford to host. the speaker is fairly likely to not be protested against, because often no one outside the special interest group knows they're coming in. at the same time, they have no protection by campus security if there are protesters. there is obviously also no protection from social media campaigns against their proposed speakers.

the University of Toronto in particular doesn't offer support/space for public demonstrations. Groups thinking they will do something big on campus are told no consistently and told to apply to the police for a parade/demonstration permit.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:15 pm
@izzythepush,
Where would Katie Hopkins be on your radar?

I just googled "Ann Coulter of the UK" and her name came up.
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:30 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
I think I should also add that I prefer that the law and any legal decisions to error on the side of free speech, rather than restricting that speech.


this is one area where things are so different in Canada.

Quote:
In 1948, the United Nations adopted the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which says: "Everyone has the right to opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers."

Free speech is protected in Canada under the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, but the right is not absolute. Section 1 of the Charter states: "The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society."


this over-rides free speech in most cases:

Quote:
Hate crimes
The Criminal Code of Canada says a hate crime is committed to intimidate, harm or terrify not only a person, but an entire group of people to which the victim belongs. It applies when the victims are targeted for who they are, not because of anything they have done, and can involve intimidation, harassment, physical force or threat of physical force against a person, a group or a property.

In Canada it’s also a crime to incite hatred. Under Section 318 of the Criminal Code, it is a criminal act to "advocate or promote genocide" — to call for, support, encourage or argue for the killing of members of a group based on colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation.

Section 319 deals with publicly stirring up or inciting hatred against an identifiable group based on colour, race, religion, ethnic origin or sexual orientation. It is illegal to communicate hatred in a public place by telephone, broadcast or through other audio or visual means, but the same section protects people from being charged with a hate crime if their statements are truthful or the expression of a religious opinion.

The mischief section, 430, covers hate-motivated mischief and religious property. It provides for harsher sentences than mischief involving other property.

Prior to 2003, Canada’s Criminal Code protected people on the basis of race, religion, ethnic origin, colour, gender and disability. On April 29, 2004, the federal government passed Bill C-250 to amend the Criminal Code, adding penalties for inciting hatred against people on the basis of sexual orientation.

'The section of the code on sentencing (718.2) encourages judges to consider whether the crime was motivated by hate of the victim's race, national or ethnic origin, language, colour, religion, sex, age, mental or physical disability, sexual orientation or any other similar factor.

Under Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act it is a "discriminatory practice" to send hate messages via telecommunications equipment, including the internet.


https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/when-is-it-hate-speech-7-significant-canadian-cases-1.1036731
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:34 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
1) I think this is wrong. I think students should be allowed to protest, but I think it's wrong that conservative students voices are being drowned out and the speakers they are inviting are not allowed to speak on campus (while apparently more centrist or left leaning speakers ARE allowed).


so I'm going with a no to any speakers on campus - invited by student groups. just no.

0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:37 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
If you have the time or inclination, I'd like to know the areas where your reaction was "but that's illegal [in Canada or US]" as well. I'm interested in understanding how the law butts up against this.


I'm going to start with something really simple. Not right on topic, but related.

In my hometown (and many other Canadian university towns) no fraternities or sororities are permitted.

https://www.queensu.ca/encyclopedia/f/fraternities-and-sororities

Quote:
Fraternities and sororities have been banned at Queen's since a ruling by the Alma Mater Society (AMS) in 1933. The ruling was a response to the formation of two fraternities in the 1920s, one for Arts and Science students and a second, more active one, for Medical students.

A majority of Queen's students, who prided themselves on egalitarianism and united community spirit, disapproved of these organizations because of their external affiliations and the exclusivity that they fostered.

A coalition of anti-fraternity forces, led by the Levana Society and Arts and Theology students, swept the AMS elections of 1933 and sponsored an open meeting of about 1000 students in Grant Hall, during which students voted to ban all fraternities and sororities.

The 24 members of the Medical fraternity, however, defied this ban and were brought before the AMS Court in 1934 for contravention of the AMS constitution. They were found guilty and declared ineligible to participate in all student political, social, and athletic activities for a year.


we're coming from a very different place on universities/student life to begin with
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:51 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

2) Similar to #1 - Alternative voices (in this case conservative voices) should be allowed to speak and be discussed when and where appropriate (note, for example: I don't believe that discussion creation in a molecular biology class to be appropriate -- but I do think a "creation-scientist" should be allowed to speak on campus at an event).


university sponsored debates? absolutely

this sort of thing 100%

https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates/Religion

they're a big deal for the U of T/Toronto - they've become too large to host at the university

https://www.munkdebates.com/The-Debates

__

debate club? absolutely

http://harthouse.ca/debating-club-about-us/

__

this? sure, though I heard it was pretty dang boring, which is a shame. Interesting topic.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/university-of-toronto-professor-defends-right-to-use-gender-specific-pronouns/article32946675/
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 03:54 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:
3) I think it's unfortunate that conservative students feel that their voices (and in essence, their ideas) are not welcome at college...which I've always believed to be a place where ideas are to be shared and argued intelligently...not through coercion; and not silenced when all permits, etc have been acquired


I generally find university students to be far too conservative in their orientation so it's hard to know where to go with this.

I'd like them all to share their ideas respectfully. I think debate/meeting protocol should be taught in elementary school - along with martial arts. I value mental and physical discipline.
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 05:09 pm
@maporsche,
She's ******* horrible. I can't see anyone serious asking her. She's about shocking people and sensationalism. She's not got anything coherent about her.

Quote:
Katie Hopkins has won a complaint against the Mirror after a headline used to promote a report on the newspaper’s website left the impression that she was prevented from leaving South Africa for taking drugs rather than because she had been detained for allegedly spreading racial hatred.

The rightwing columnist and broadcaster took exception to the headline “Katie Hopkins banned from leaving South Africa after taking ketamine” used to promote a story published online in February, arguing it could damage her reputation by suggesting she had been arrested for taking a drug used for illegal purposes in the UK.

She said the newspaper should have made it clear her passport was briefly confiscated over entirely separate allegations she had been spreading racial hatred, an incident that coincidentally happened after she took medically prescribed ketamine.


https://www.theguardian.com/media/2018/may/24/katie-hopkins-wins-complaint-against-mirror-for-ketamine-headline
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 05:17 pm
is my flood prevention over?

__

another big difference between American and Cdn universities and what's allowed

our 'real' universities are public, not private

http://higheredstrategy.com/why-dont-we-have-private-universities-in-canada/

Quote:
Actually, Canada still has a private system of universities, but they are (with one exception) religious in nature: Trinity Western in BC, King’s, Concordia and St. Mary’s in Alberta, Canadian Mennonite in Manitoba, Redeemer in Ontario, the Atlantic School of Theology – you get the idea. Quest University in British Columbia, set up a little over a decade ago, is the only secular private institution out there.



Quote:
To understand why, we need to go back to our observation about why private colleges thrive in Canada at the sub-degree level: because they offer something no one else does. The way to think about private higher education is that it will thrive where there is a niche that public universities cannot or will not fill. In most developing countries (as well as in countries like Japan, Korea and Taiwan), private higher education thrives because governments cannot or will not supply higher education in sufficient quantity to meet demand. In Eastern Europe, private higher education thrived in social sciences in the wake of communism because these faculties in public universities were utterly discredited and/or couldn’t provide education in high-demand subjects like business and commerce. And as higher education gets more stretched in other countries in Europe one might start to see more private higher education providers (particularly in the UK)

But in Canada, there simply aren’t so many niches. Our universities are well-funded, cover pretty much the entire spectrum of studies, and compared to most university systems around the world, quite open to covering new and emerging areas of study even if they aren’t “traditional”. With few niches to fill, there isn’t a lot of room for private providers.




(colleges here are NOT universities. they are entirely different systems. colleges here are more like academic trade schools)
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 05:20 pm
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

4) I think the college should take an active stance in making sure that all of it's students are held to the same rules and if conservative students want to have a speaker as disgusting as Milo Yiannopoulos come speak at their school, they should be allowed to do so and the school should provide a space for that.


yes and no

yes to standards and rules being the same for all

no to the school providing space for any speakers (unless it's on a rental basis, paid for by the specific student group)
0 Replies
 
neptuneblue
 
  2  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 06:15 pm
https://www.ohio.com/akron/writers/katie-byard/white-nationalist-richard-spencer-apparently-no-longer-seeking-to-speak-at-kent-state-say-hes-rethinking-approach-to-college-tour

By Katie Byard

Beacon Journal/Ohio.com

White nationalist Richard Spencer says it is time to “take a step back” from his college speaking tour and apparently is no longer trying to speak at Kent State University.

Spencer posted a video to YouTube earlier this month in which he said, “I don’t have any firm answers about what we should do going forward, and also I am committed to the ‘alt-right’ having a public face and having public expressions.”

The video followed Spencer’s talk amid protests at Michigan State University on March 5.

To settle a lawsuit, Michigan State allowed Spencer to speak on campus during spring break.

Spencer said in the video he spoke “to a much reduced crowd” in East Lansing, Mich., “due to the … effectively, the riot outside.”

Spencer apparently was referring to the hundreds of protesters outside the Michigan State auditorium where he spoke.

Fights broke out and there were arrests, according to the Detroit Free Press. The newspaper said at least 100 officers in riot gear appeared to be on the scene.

In his video, Spencer, reflecting on the Michigan protests, blamed anti-fascist — also known as antifa — extremists for violence outside his talks and said, “Antifa has been escalating” in its response to his appearances. “Normal college students are afraid to enter the auditorium,” he said.

“The college tour is not about pitched battles. It is about intellectual activity,” he said. “And until something changes, I’m going to have to rethink how I do this.”

He said one way to continue his public speaking is not to announce events ahead of time, tipping off opponents.

Last month, Kent State denied a request by Spencer’s attorney Kyle Bristow to have Spencer and others speak at the university on May 4, the 48th anniversary of the day in 1970 when the Ohio National Guard fired into a crowd of protesters on the campus. The community annually commemorates the four people who were killed and nine who were wounded.

Kent State has said: “We cannot accommodate this request as no suitable space is available during the April 30-May 12 time frame.”

Bristow had threatened to sue the university after its denial.

Spencer is a leading figure in the “alt-right” movement, which is an offshoot of conservatism mixing racism, white nationalism, anti-Semitism and populism.

He has used the alt-right term “to describe a loose set of far-right ideals centered on ‘white identity’ and the preservation of ‘Western civilization,’ ” according to the Southern Poverty Law Center.

Spencer began the college tour in 2016, and Cameron Padgett, Spencer’s tour manager, has sued other public universities, including Ohio State, University of Cincinnati and Pennsylvania State, alleging they are violating his free speech rights by refusing to let him rent space for Spencer’s speeches. The universities cited safety concerns.

Earlier this month, Spencer dropped his lawsuit against Ohio State.

However, a new attorney for Spencer, James Kolenich, who lives outside Cincinnati, told the Associated Press that he and Padgett, the tour manager, would continue with the case in federal court against the University of Cincinnati.

Bristow sued that school in January after it said Padgett would need to pay a nearly $11,000 fee to cover security costs.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 06:30 pm
@neptuneblue,
Quote:
Padgett would need to pay a nearly $11,000 fee to cover security costs.


whoever brings the speaker into a venue should be responsible for all security-related costs - and insurance
neptuneblue
 
  1  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 06:41 pm
@ehBeth,
Kent State would have allowed him to speak on campus. He just refused to back off the May 4th date for his speech and Taylor Hall location. They offered to move his venue, free of charge to another Hall but again, he wouldn't budge, threatening to sue. Once he found out Samaria Rice was scheduled to speak, somehow he lost interest and moved on.

https://www.ohio.com/akron/writers/tamir-rice-s-mother-uses-ksu-may-4-commemoration-speech-to-plead-for-racial-unity

By Marilyn Miller

Hundreds of people filled the Kent State Commons Wednesday to mark the 46th anniversary of the May 4, 1970, confrontation in which four students were killed by Ohio National Guardsmen.

The theme for the event, hosted by the May 4 Task Force, was “Black Lives Matter: Long Live the Memory of Kent State and Jackson State.”

KSU president Beverly Warren welcomed Samaria Rice, mother of Tamir Rice, as the keynote speaker. Rice’s son was shot and killed by a Cleveland police officer in November 2014; the 12-year-old was playing with a pellet gun that had been mistaken for a real gun.

About 200 members of Black United Students sat on the ground in front of the stage facing the crowd in solidarity with Rice as she spoke. The selection of Rice as keynote speaker set off a stream of negative social media posts last week.

Shortly before Rice spoke, BUS President Chynna Baldwin condemned the uproar.

“Even though blacks escaped death on May 4, 1970, they did not escape death on May 14,1970 [Jackson State], February 26, 2012 [Trayvon Martin], Nov. 22, 2014 [Tamir Rice] … the average person doesn’t even recognize those dates, but can easily slander a woman, disregarding the death of her child and idolizing the people who took his life, the same people blacks have to deal with every day.”

Rice shared her story of the day of Tamir’s death. She said two of her children had asked to go to the park across the street to play that Saturday afternoon.

She was cooking lasagna for dinner when two neighbor children knocked on the door to tell her police had just shot her son.

“I was in denial. My 16-year-old zoomed by me and out of the house,” Rice said. “When I got there, I saw my son lying on the ground. I tried to get to him. I was told to calm down or I would be placed in the back of a cruiser.

“My 14-year-old daughter was already in the back of a cruiser and my 16-year-old was surrounded by police. It was the most horrific day in my life, sending two children out to play that day and only one coming home,” she said. “That’s a pain no mother or father should have to endure.”

Rice paid tribute to victims at Kent State and Jackson State College in Mississippi, where two students were killed and 12 were wounded when police opened fire at a group of protesters 10 days after the KSU shootings. She said both groups of students had the right to exercise their First Amendment rights and law enforcement again just knocked those rights down.

She said in her struggle for accountability for her son’s death she realized that relatives of those killed at Kent State and Jackson State are still trying to get justice for their children.

“National Guardsmen shooting into a crowd of unarmed students, ­America should be ashamed of that. America has a lot of cleaning up to do or America will collapse,” Rice said. “We need to change some laws so everyone can be safe. Law enforcement can’t keep using deadly force before assessing the situation.”

She called for blacks and whites to stand and unite to “set an example to the government that we’re not going to take it anymore and you cannot use deadly force as a first result. … It’s the only way change will occur,” Rice said. “Racism is a disease. You aren’t born with it. You are taught racism. We’re still looking for a cure for racism like we are looking for cures for other diseases.”

She described her son as a budding artist just learning to play the drums, someone who could swim in 12 feet of water and a normal 12-year-old who loved Clifford and Curious George cartoons.

She is establishing the Tamir Rice Foundation with a mentoring program, art program and scholarships for students to fulfill their dreams, saying “children are our future.”

About 10 people spoke before Rice, including Jennifer Schwartz of Cleveland, who talked about her cousin, 19-year-old Allison Krause, who was one of the four people who died at Kent.

Schwartz said Allison’s mother, Doris Krause, died in January after decades of profound grief and extensive legal battles in hers and her husband’s quest for truth.

“Allison’s death was an unnecessary death, a betrayal by a government meant to protect her. She was one of four students, none of them armed — only with their voices,” Schwartz said.

Allison’s mother struggled with why the government condemned her daughter and labeled her a radical student after finding gravel in her pocket, Schwartz said, adding that she often visits Allison’s grave with a pocket full of pebbles.

She said she welcomed Samaria Rice as the keynote speaker and said Allison would have welcomed her, too.

“I challenge those who say the precious lives in both incidents are not the same,” Schwartz said. “Black lives matter and citizens continue to be targeted simply on the basis of race.”
0 Replies
 
realjohnboy
 
  3  
Reply Thu 19 Jul, 2018 09:26 pm
UVA confirms that Marc Short, a senior aide to Trump until earlier this month, will be coming to Charlottesville to teach in the fall. He will be at the business school (from which I received an MBA, by the way) and also at the Miller Center.
The announcement was met by verbal protests from faculty and alumni.
I question his position with the business school but the Miller Center has a long and well deserved reputation for including faculty and assorted speakers with diverse backgrounds addressing public policy issues.
Good on UVA for not caving in to the "free speech is good as long as you agree with me" crowd.
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 10:16 am
https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/39594044_1846590568754479_7004328018885738496_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=6819504a665201a9afc21cb9c102a98f&oe=5C07DEC3
camlok
 
  2  
Reply Tue 21 Aug, 2018 11:55 pm
@maporsche,
Quote:
I generally agree. I think if you're attending a right leaning or religious school you should probably not be too surprised that your atheist points of view aren't going to be tolerated very long.


A religious university is the antithesis of free speech.
0 Replies
 
 

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