Progressives (Liberals)

Many lefty voters see little difference between Biden and Trump and many of those people simply will not vote at all.

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@snood,

Quote:

She said it on Fox News.

Fox is a problem. The negative consequence of a Dem appearing is granting credibility to the propaganda operation. I've not been shy about making that argument before.

But it can be necessary. Or at least one can reasonably argue that benefits can accrue as well, that getting Dem voices to those who seldom hear them has merit. Within the last week, Eric Swalwell was on and he's no Sanders man. And if you watched him in the impeachment hearings, you'll know he's a very bright man.

Quote:

How could she not know the impact of suggesting Biden beat Bernie because of voter suppression?

Like I suggested, I think it was an inexpert attempt to shift discussion. That's a common political move, of course, but it doesn't always work as hoped. Words, phrases, sentences can come back to haunt in a manner one wouldn't have thought like "deplorables" or Obama's "he didn't built that".

Give her some slack, guys. Don't go to war with friends.

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@Walter Hinteler,

From Walter's quote

Quote:

the #BernieorBust fans are grappling with a repeat of 2016.

Another example. One of the loudest voices coming down from the balcony at the convention (where Sarah Silverman took them to task) was later revealed as a GOP operative.

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@blatham,

I wouldn't worry too much about this crap. As Maporsche points out, these people often don't vote. One of the reasons I consider Sanders to be clueless is that he continues to attempt to appeal to young voters who simply don't vote in the general elections. Hell, in 2016, they whined about not being able to vote in the New York primary, because they hadn't bothered to check the voting requirements in their own home state, and did not register soon enough to participate. The State of New York changed their registration rules in 2019, but a dime to a dollar, there will still be fools who show up and will not be qualified to vote in the primary, and will whine about it again.

So what? Young voters traditionally don't vote in general elections. This article at PoliFact looks at voter turn out, specifically the turn out of young voters.

1 Reply

@maporsche,

Quote:

Black people are the usual targets of voter suppression. They turned out. Record numbers of voters in some of these states, people are turning out.

Also, Biden is winning in states where people aren’t waiting 3, 4, 7 hours to vote. This isn’t happening everywhere.

Of course. But another target of GOP voter suppression is young people. Thus all the legislation to make IRA membership cards valid for voting but not school/university ID cards. Thus the scarcity of voting stations near universities. Two common tricks used in GOP led states. There's been tons of reporting on this.

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@blatham,

For a Dem to appear on Fox because it gives Fox viewers access to Dems they might not get otherwise just makes no sense to me.

The whole reason Fox viewers only watch Fox is because they don’t want access to anything else.

Are you seriously suggesting that it’s a good use of time and energy to court Trump voters?

Your advice to not “go to war with friends” might better have been given to AOC before she said some stupid **** like that. I still count her as a strong asset for Dems, but she needs to acknowledge she fucked up here.

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@snood,

She had to say it because she was stumping for Bernie and he said it.

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@maporsche,

Quote:

To be honest, I’m not the slightest bit worried about Bernie Or Busters.

I'm not either, actually. My concerns relate to how bad players enter into situations like this - existing fractures - and utilize them to cause disarray, suspicions and bad feelings. That was a key point made by Fiona Hill in her testimony and more recently in at least one interview. The secondary strategy is to move these 'battles' into the mainstream press. As Hill says, we need to understand these things and not fall prey to them. We really ought to spend about 2% of our time on such matters and 98% on working to understand and reveal what Trump and the Republicans are and have been up to and the consequences.

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@Setanta,

Quote:

One of the reasons I consider Sanders to be clueless is that he continues to attempt to appeal to young voters who simply don't vote in the general elections.

Yes. I've wondered if he's a bit stuck in the 60s and thought he could recreate dynamics present at that time. Foolish.

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@maporsche,

You said so already. You think Biden is a solid candidate?

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@snood,

I guess we read that incident differently. As I said, I don't hold it against her at all. But I'm not going to get in a tussle with you unless we end up on a interstellar craft where there's only one female. Then it's out the airlock with you. A social distancing strategy.

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Quote:

The Coronavirus Outbreak Could Spread To Millions In The US. We Don’t Have Nearly Enough Hospital Beds If It Does.

Models suggest that the US could be headed toward 150,000 COVID-19 cases by the end of the month, with only 45,000 ICU hospital beds nationwide. But there are some things we can do to help.

Link

Jesus. A bit more than two weeks from now! There's the modifier "could" in there but still, Jesus. We all know that cliche, "we live in interesting times". I might just murder the next person who throws that one out. You know, to show him/her how right the cliche is.

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@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Give her some slack, guys. Don't go to war with friends.

I don't consider myself at war with her.

I wouldn't even have taken the time to post her saying that if it didn't come right on the heels of me posting here saying that I liked something she just said, and that I hope she's learned to do more of that and less of the divisive stuff (or potentially divisive, if I'm being charitable). I mean it was literally 90 minutes from when I posted my comment to when I saw her new one.

I hope she gets better at this.

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@Olivier5,

Olivier5 wrote:

You said so already. You think Biden is a solid candidate?

Absolutely. But I also thought Hillary was, so maybe I'm just too optimistic?

What I am absolutely positive of, is that if you can't even win over Democratic voters in the primary, there is NO WAY you're beating the Republican candidate.

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@blatham,

I haven't paid much attention to her primary race...do any of them have a chance at beating her in her district?

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@maporsche,

Fair enough. And she is certain to get better at this. One of the things that so impresses me about her is how quickly she learns and the work she puts into that. There's an element of ambition in her but it's the right sort of the thing.

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@maporsche,

I have not either. But even if she were to lose, she'll be grabbed up by someone as a senior staffer.

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I love Fox because of the stunning intellectual level of much of it's discourse. Eg.

Quote:

GERALDO RIVERA: We're on the same side, it is about messaging, and that speech was written by senior advisor Stephen Miller, same guy that imposed the Muslim ban --

SEAN HANNITY (HOST): Oh my gosh.

RIVERA: You had pregnant women knocking over each other with babies and --

HANNITY: Are Americans safer?

RIVERA: You can do these things, you do them right. You do them the American way.

HANNITY: Dan, bail me out.

DAN BONGINO: Geraldo, you realize you're repeating Chinese propaganda here, I hope you understand that you're -- you may be smart enough to know that, who knows.

RIVERA: Oh, don't give me that crap. You -- what are you -- what are you talking about?

BONGINO: Geraldo, you are repeating Chinese propaganda.

RIVERA: Chinese propaganda? You're a cheap shot artist. You're a cheap shot artist.

BONGINO: You're suggesting -- hold on --

RIVERA: Talk to the facts -- talk to the facts --

BONGINO: You know what? You're a bullshit artist, okay?

RIVERA: I'm -- Chinese propaganda, you know what? You're lucky you're not in front of me, big guy.

BONGINO: What you just said is Chinese propaganda -- really? I strongly suggest you rethink that approach. You are repeating Chinese propaganda on this channel, and you know it, that Stephen Miller cheap shot is outrageous.

RIVERA: Oh, don't -- Do you have a fact? Do you have a fact?

BONGINO: It is a foreign virus -- can you be quiet for two seconds while I talk?

RIVERA: Can you make an intellectual argument about anything? Can you make an intellectual argument?

BONGINO: Listen, you're upset because you're getting called out right now, that's why. Now control yourself and pipe down.

RIVERA: Oh, Dan --

BONGINO: The Wuhan virus from Wuhan is a virus from China that is a foreign virus. Blaming it on Stephen Miller is outrageously stupid.

MM

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@blatham,

blatham wrote:

Fair enough. And she is certain to get better at this. One of the things that so impresses me about her is how quickly she learns and the work she puts into that. There's an element of ambition in her but it's the right sort of the thing.

I still share your appreciation of AOC - she seems exceptional in many ways.

And if the one woman was Jennifer Lawrence, you’d have a good scrap on your hands.😁

1 Reply

@snood,

Re JL... I know. It's why I'm not messing around.

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