Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 02:45 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I need a playbook on these parties.
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 02:47 pm
@Sturgis,
Quote:
You just did.
This is a cheap rhetorical move she falls to regularly. It's a simple lack of honesty and integrity.
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 02:48 pm
@Lash,
Not only for those.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 02:51 pm
The "war on Thanksgiving" is pretty funny. But so was the "war on Christmas", of course.

Funny because there's nothing real in either charge where as there really has been a long-running right wing war on another holiday - Halloween.
Lash
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:00 pm
Here’s Bernie’s plan. Of course, I love it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.jsonline.com/amp/3894709002

I have some thought to the question re if he accepted DNC / DNCC money or advertising — as all other presidential candidates have done. I’d be disappointed, but it wouldn’t change my vote.

There’s a huge difference to me in going to corporate bosses and billionaires as Buttigieg, Biden and the rest have done, promising to do what they want for the money—contrasted with benefiting from money raised to elect the candidate.

Bernie nor I would approve of using oil money, Pharma, insurance—the companies hurting regular Americans. And come to think of it—I can’t think of many decent companies that aren’t trying to pay for illegitimate favors with donations. Unions donate. Who else...
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:01 pm
@blatham,
And Reagan pretty much pulled the rug right out from under National Arbor Day with his "you know, a tree is a tree, how many more do you need to look at?" remark.

Lash
 
  0  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:01 pm
@blatham,
I read a couple articles about what Bernie has said about the subject.

I answer in my time. You’re so desperate.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -2  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:05 pm
@Sturgis,
I am not on your schedule.
Walter Hinteler
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:08 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:
The "war on Thanksgiving" is pretty funny.

It's actually Dutch.

Certain English pilgrims, who fled because of their religion to Leiden/South Holland got to know there the Dutch/German tradition of the "dankfe(e)st, took it with them to America and these Pilgrim Fathers celebrated it there as Thanksgiving Day. (In today's Dutch "Biddag voor Gewas en Arbeid", in German "Erntedankfest".)
Sturgis
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:13 pm
@Lash,
I have no schedule. Unlike you, I am more like an amoeba. Living, floating, being my me.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:14 pm
@Lash,
Quote:
I have some thought to the question re if he accepted DNC / DNCC money or advertising — as all other presidential candidates have done. I’d be disappointed, but it wouldn’t change my vote.
Finally.

There's no good reason for it to change your vote. It's a reality in the present situation and if he's the nominee, he will accept DNC aid. But you can't dodge the logical outcomes of your prior stance - If the DNC is corrupt in taking such funds, so will be Sanders.
Quote:
There’s a huge difference to me in going to corporate bosses and billionaires as Buttigieg, Biden and the rest have done, promising to do what they want for the money
Bullshit.

You have no evidence for this charge. Your forwarding of it is another example of either your inability to distinguish information from disinformation. Or it is another example of you just forwarding a particular strain of propaganda designed to sew division on the left.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:15 pm
@hightor,
Arbor Day. My family and I miss it so.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 03:16 pm
@Walter Hinteler,
I did not know that history, Walter. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  -1  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 04:03 pm
@blatham,
Bullshit you.

There is a huge difference between wheeling and dealing quid pro quo and being the nominee of a party and allowing them to advertise for you.

The remaining problem is: did the DNC /DNCC make promises in the as-of-yet -unknown-candidate’s part?

And, I feel pretty confident that Bernie’s morality is more intact than mine.





0 Replies
 
Lash
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 04:11 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

You have no evidence for this charge. Your forwarding of it is another example of either your inability to distinguish information from disinformation. Or it is another example of you just forwarding a particular strain of propaganda designed to sew division on the left.

Evidence for this charge.
https://www.salon.com/2019/06/19/joe-biden-to-rich-donors-nothing-would-fundamentally-change-if-hes-elected/
Excerpt:
Former Vice President Joe Biden assured rich donors at a ritzy New York fundraiser that “nothing would fundamentally change” if he is elected.

Biden told donors at an event at the Carlyle Hotel in Manhattan on Tuesday evening that he would not “demonize” the rich and promised that “no one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” Bloomberg News reported.

—————————

I’m merely forwarding a fact designed to inform people of Joe Biden’s intentions with their lives.
RABEL222
 
  3  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 06:15 pm
@Lash,
On your knees, clasp your hands together and pray to Bernie to save us from the godless conservative devils. With out the help of the even more lawless DNC. Wait, isent this just what Trump and the conservatives are hoping for? Once again Lash shows her true conservative colors?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  5  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 06:20 pm
@Lash,
This is what you said
Quote:
as Buttigieg, Biden and the rest have done, promising to do what they want for the money
That's 1) Buttigieg 2) Biden 3) the rest, that is all the rest by the meaning of the term.

You offer as evidence
Quote:
Biden told donors at an event at the Carlyle Hotel in Manhattan on Tuesday evening that he would not “demonize” the rich and promised that “no one’s standard of living will change, nothing would fundamentally change,” Bloomberg News reported.

Though you didn't mention it, he also spoke about the devastation of poverty. But in any case, you've presented "evidence" as regards one individual. Your claim was far broader.

But let's think this through. "Demonizing the rich". Ought this to be a rallying cry? Shall we attack Jerry Seinfeld? Larry David? Bruce Springsteen? Helen Mirren? Peter Jackson? George Soros? Martin Freeman? Paul McCartney? Andrew Lloyd Webber? Elton John? All multi-millionaires and several are billionaires. Does wealth entail evil? Does poverty equate to goodness?

Obviously, that would be a seriously fucked up equation. If, however, one were to argue that the present disparity of wealth in America is obscene, immoral and almost certainly a grave danger to democracy and citizen well-being, I doubt any here would contest such a claim (unless they are a particular sort of idiot right wing type).

"no one’s standard of living will change" A very stupid thing for Biden to voice in the manner he voiced it. But he's actually right (at least as regards the wealthy people he was speaking to). Even if a wealth tax of the sort Warren proposes was put into place, multi-millionaires and billionaires would not suffer any noticeable alteration in lifestyle. That's one of the key aspects that makes such a tax compelling and relatively simple in moral terms. If one were to make a different argument, that the oddly American valuation of wealth ("Greed, for lack of a better term, is good") forwards a deeply immoral or amoral ethos with countless un-Christian outcomes, fine. That argument has a rich tradition that myself and most everyone else here would agree with.

I can't recall a single post I've written here that spoke in support of the Biden candidacy. In fact, I think the only thing I've said about him is that he's too old - not just in years but in worldview. I desire far deeper change than I suspect he's capable of directing.

But if he's the candidate, I'm on board. If Sanders is the candidate, I'm on board. Or Pete. Or Warren. A continuation of Republican power is the nightmare. As regards corruption and threats to democracy and a free press, the two parties are not in any aspect equivalent. It's not even close.
snood
 
  2  
Reply Wed 27 Nov, 2019 07:07 pm
@blatham,
Quote:

"no one’s standard of living will change" A very stupid thing for Biden to voice in the manner he voiced it. But he's actually right (at least as regards the wealthy people he was speaking to). Even if a wealth tax of the sort Warren proposes was put into place, multi-millionaires and billionaires would not suffer any noticeable alteration in lifestyle. That's one of the key aspects that makes such a tax compelling and relatively simple in moral terms. If one were to make a different argument, that the oddly American valuation of wealth ("Greed, for lack of a better term, is good") forwards a deeply immoral or amoral ethos with countless un-Christian outcomes, fine. That argument has a rich tradition that myself and most everyone else here would agree with.



To me, the galling thing was the image of him comforting the comfortable. Though certainly understandable retail politics, not much better than pure pandering.

Quote:

But if he's the candidate, I'm on board. If Sanders is the candidate, I'm on board. Or Pete. Or Warren. A continuation of Republican power is the nightmare. As regards corruption and threats to democracy and a free press, the two parties are not in any aspect equivalent. It's not even close.


Which to me is the ONLY sensible stance - that is, if your goal is to defeat the malignant troll and elect someone marginally interested in governing for the people( but not if you’re engaged in a grand crusade to overthrow all impure corporatists, imperialists, and neoliberals and see the only one who can REALLY fix it for the populists ascend).
Real Music
 
  3  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2019 12:28 am
@blatham,
Quote:
But if he's the candidate, I'm on board. If Sanders is the candidate, I'm on board. Or Pete. Or Warren. A continuation of Republican power is the nightmare.

AGREED.



Quote:
As regards corruption and threats to democracy and a free press, the two parties are not in any aspect equivalent. It's not even close.

AGREED.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Thu 28 Nov, 2019 07:29 am
@snood,
Quote:
To me, the galling thing was the image of him comforting the comfortable. Though certainly understandable retail politics, not much better than pure pandering.
Yes. Galling is the right word. I want to insert him into that Monty Python skit where two men are standing beside a canal and one suddenly pulls a huge fish from behind his back and slaps the other across the face and into the canal.
0 Replies
 
 

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