Progressives (Liberals)

@Walter Hinteler,

Thank you Walter. Weber is a real omission in my political studies. Years ago, there was an erudite member of Abuzz who was a serious Weber student and fan. He finally tired of America so much that he moved to Germany. I can't recall his name.

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@blatham,

Seydlitz

1 Reply

@blatham,

I don't speak for every progressive, but it is not impatience driving me, it's disgust that we even have to argue about the need for drastic change. I've been mentally marking the decline in progressive policy and influence in this country since the 1960s. It's like a reverse funnel and we are now about to get expelled totally.

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@blatham,

Rest assured that no candidate has presented him or herself as a magical unicorn.

Realism is one thing, pessimism quite another. Trump can be beaten and it's important to beat him. It's also important to do something real and positive with that victory. Rather than cry about how hard it will be, let's roll our sleves and try and make that happen.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

QED: Sanders has a track-record of attracting non-dem voters.

In Vermont. That's my point. Gov. Scott is a Republican, not a Trump populist.

I wonder how many states have independent socialists in their legislatures or representing them in Washington? Despite the popularity of democratic socialism with Democratic activists I don't see a groundswell of the movement in the political population at large. It needs more than a couple of popular figureheads in order to be a real force for change.

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@hightor,

And my point is that Vermont has often voted Republican.

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@blatham,

I am talking about the simple lightswitch that goes on when the examples being set show positive change for the first time in decades. Already, surveys show that people want universal healthcare. They damn sure want to get better paychecks. They are on board with much of it already. But the centrist and right wing voices flood the voters with bogus information to confuse their right to make an unpressured choice. Then there is cheating at the ballot box, just like we used to monitor in other republics, but barely try to monitor in our own.

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@Olivier5,

Sorry, man, you got in before my edit — Republicans in New England are not necessarily Trumpists. Hell, I'd vote for a decent moderate Republican in state elections if the Democratic candidate were sub-par. It's different up here. We have extremist Republicans but they are often sidelined by their own party in Maine.

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@blatham,

"Weber" as answer to some teacher's questions about "who could have got this idea" at school was a guarantee for a good mark.
(Mentioning and quoting Weber was the guaranty as well that my [equivalent of a] MA in Social Work included the qualification for the senior civil service.)

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Limbs it is very safe to go out on...

Quote:

Donald Trump generally doesn’t know what reporters are going to ask him during occasional Q&A sessions on the White House South Lawn, and once in a while, someone will ask the president about something that isn’t necessarily dominating domestic headlines.

Take yesterday, for example.

Quote:
Q: Do you have a message for Poland on the anniversary of Warsaw Uprising, which is today?

TRUMP: Well, I have a lot of respect for Poland. And, as you know, the people of Poland like me, and I like them. And I’m going to be going to Poland fairly soon.

I’m going to go out on a limb here and say that Trump probably has no idea what the Warsaw Uprising is or why it was so historically significant.

It’s probably why the Republican turned so quickly to his go-to move: comments about himself and his perceived popularity.

But as Trump boasted about how much the “people of Poland like” him, it got me thinking about whether that’s true or not.

As it turns out, we don’t need to guess.

Last fall, the Pew Research Center published its latest report on global attitudes, which found the United States’ international standing suffering badly following Trump’s rise to power. Across much of the world, people’s perceptions about the American presidency and the United States’ credibility have taken severe hits.

This is true of, among other countries, Poland. Towards the end of George W. Bush’s presidency, the percentage of people in Poland who said they have “a lot” or “some” confidence in the U.S. president dropped to just 29%. During Barack Obama’s presidency, the number grew considerably, reaching a peak of 64% in 2015.

And then Donald Trump took office. The number plummeted to 23% in the Republican’s first year in office, and while it improved to 35% in 2018, that’s still far below any year of the Obama era.

The same research found that most people in Poland have “no confidence” that Trump can be counted on to do the right thing regarding world affairs.

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@hightor,

Quote:

Seydlitz

Good man! Thanks. I stayed in touch with him for a couple of years after he moved but we didn't keep that up.

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@blatham,

You can’t use a hypocritical Republican, for crissakes, to give an example of ‘an authoritarian progressive’!! Rolling Eyes

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@hightor,

Fair enough. He has a track record of attracting independent voters in Vermont, and how this could translate in other states remains to be seen.

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@Lash,

Daenerys Targaryen is a good example of what Blatham has in mind. I'm not even joking: GOT characters and plots carry political subtext, and the ending of the last season can be read as a warning against the dangers of utopian thinking.

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

*So, Trump’s in office, the MIC, the CIA, and all the shady alphabet we don’t even know about with unlimited power and no accountability are the status quo in this country, but Blatham’s afraid of universal healthcare. Shocked

The dragons have already burned down King’s Landing. We’ve all been trying to exist in the interim, living among the ashes, fighting each other for potatoes. Bernie is Bran. And, how apt. He’s the only one who’s proven his prescience.

*Getting rid of Trump does not change anything. Only Bernie does.

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@blatham,

Quote:

I stayed in touch with him for a couple of years after he moved but we didn't keep that up.

He was quite the conversation stopper! He'd show up on a PUP thread and deposit these tightly crafted analyses and everyone would be scratching their head trying to figure out how to respond. Usually it was something like, "Thanks, Seydlitz, that's fascinating."

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

Quote:

Realism is one thing, pessimism quite another. Trump can be beaten and it's important to beat him. It's also important to do something real and positive with that victory. Rather than cry about how hard it will be, let's roll our sleves and try and make that happen.

Sure.

Quote:

Rest assured that no candidate has presented him or herself as a magical unicorn.

I didn't say a candidate had made the claim. But the notion that Sanders is the only one who can save America obviously makes such a claim. And that's as nutty as imagining L Ron Hubbard is the only one who can save mankind.

1 Reply

@blatham,

If Bran can’t, no one can.

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@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Already, surveys show that people want universal healthcare. They damn sure want to get better paychecks. They are on board with much of it already.

All of this precedes Sanders.

Quote:

show positive change for the first time in decades.

I gather you refer to Sander's influence on the party. I agree. He's been a very positive influence in moving the party left. That is what I hoped would be a consequence of his candidacy. But this leadership role (which is what I consider it) does not logically entail that 1) he's the best candidate for office or 2) that all other Dems are somehow fake.

3 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Folks went a bit overboard in their regard for the man's work?

0 Replies

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