Progressives (Liberals)

@edgarblythe,

edgarblythe wrote:

Teachers average between $27000 and $44000, depending on the state.
https://www.teacherportal.com/teacher-salaries-by-state/
Their classes are so underfunded, many have to buy supplies out of their own pay to keep the kids going.

I am one to admit that teachers deserve more money. I've voted for every single increase in teacher funding that I've had the chance to. Every one.

But the average pay you quoted is wrong. You quoted starting salary, not average salary. The average salary is between $39000 and $75000. Same chart, different column.

27 states have teachers with an average salary of $50,000 or higher.

1 Reply

@blatham,

blatham wrote:

We are getting stupid with some stuff. There's no way I can charge Jordan with anti-Semitism in using $ to replace the S in Steyer. I think there is almost no possibility that he'd publicly post it if he had thought about the historical precedents. Far more likely he was just pushing the recent narrative that Steyer is controlling the Dems with his deep pockets.

These frivolous charges only serve to detract and diminish acknowledgment of true anti-Semitism like the massacre committed at the Pittsburgh synagogue for self-serving political purposes. Aesop told of a boy who cried wolf too many times.

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@maporsche,

The US teachers I know personally had to at least get a masters level degree to get a job as an actual teacher instead of a temp gig as a teacher's assistant. most of them have been 35+, working a bunch of gigs to get those needed multiple degrees - and continuing to work side gigs to support themselves. More than one I've met through A2k continue to work those side jobs and sell blood. They're not going to be millionaires any day soon. Some are 50+ and still sharing apartments because of housing costs in their communities - and unable/unwilling to move because of commitments to their own aging parents.

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@ehBeth,

In my own clumsy way, that is what I had tried to convey. I just didn't go about it correctly.

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@ehBeth,

ehBeth wrote:

The US teachers I know personally had to at least get a masters level degree to get a job as an actual teacher instead of a temp gig as a teacher's assistant. most of them have been 35+, working a bunch of gigs to get those needed multiple degrees - and continuing to work side gigs to support themselves. More than one I've met through A2k continue to work those side jobs and sell blood. They're not going to be millionaires any day soon. Some are 50+ and still sharing apartments because of housing costs in their communities - and unable/unwilling to move because of commitments to their own aging parents.

I know many like that too (although I also know 2 millionaire teachers, one of them my extremely frugal retired at 59 future mother in law). I never suggested that it was easy. Just not impossible. It sounds like 5% of teachers become millionaires in the USA.

And my comment was never about teachers, it was about people making $50,000/year in ANY job (teacher just being a single example).

The post that started this off was from edgar saying almost all millionaires came from rich families. I challenged that and he stated what I posted was bullshit. THAT is what I take issue with.

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@ehBeth,

Another teacher I know is my best friend who teaches 5th grade in a Chicago suburb. He makes $57,000 as a 5th year teacher and only has a bachelor degree (one that he laughs took him 8 years to get). He doesn't have any other jobs, but does make anywhere from $2,000-$4,000 coaching various programs for the school (math club, lego club, football, etc).

He's not going to be a millionaire anytime soon either. He loves expensive tennis shoes too much and probably spends $500/month on them.

He's 36 though and will be more than ok with his pension.

His father is a retired teacher who is also a millionaire. He spend 6 months a year living in Mexico.

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I wouldn't vote a dime for more teacher pay without a companion legal provision that teachers don't have to join or pay dues to a union. In such circumstances, when the so-called beneficiaries of union activities are given free choice about whether they're getting their moneys worth for their dues, most opt to stay out. Our public schools are currently a monopoly controlled by a self-serving cadre of educational bureaucrats, the NEA and the AFT & other unions. They are neither accountable for what they produce or subject to competitive forces of any kind - except of course charter schools, which deliver better results for less money without Unions.

The first action of any union is to strictly define the activities of every worker - something that later becomes a strict statement of just what the worker will do, and will not do. Any change, for any reason, is simply a requirement for more dues paying workers. In this and other actions they destroy the sense of purpose or mission of the workforce. The only recommendation the AFT makes for improving school performance is more money and more dues paying teachers … and also actions to shut down their competitors in charter schools.

1 Reply

@InfraBlue,

Quote:

These frivolous charges only serve to detract and diminish acknowledgment of true anti-Semitism like the massacre committed at the Pittsburgh synagogue for self-serving political purposes. Aesop told of a boy who cried wolf too many times.

That is an opinion without one fact to back it up. Please show us some that do.

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Unions are our strongest weapons to equalize the disparities between the wealthy and the poor. Instead of weakening unions we ought to go on strike as a whole to restore collective bargaining.

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@edgarblythe,

Unions have killed the industries they feed on. There are very few remaining union workers in the private sector of our economy: most are state or Federal employees, who were unionized by administrative fiat without a vote of the employees.

Absent government enforced monopolies, unions die whenever their workers are given a choice of membership or paying dues.

1 Reply

@georgeob1,

I don’t think I have a problem with unions really.

I do wish they’d convert from pensions to something like 401k accounts with generous matches to replace pensions. At least then future citizens wouldn’t be saddled with unfunded pensions and the costs associated.

1 Reply

@edgarblythe,

Quote:

Unions are our strongest weapons to ......

keep piss poor teachers teaching.

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@maporsche,

maporsche wrote:

I do wish they’d convert from pensions to something like 401k accounts with generous matches to replace pensions. At least then future citizens wouldn’t be saddled with unfunded pensions and the costs associated.

Interesting. What's your opinion of conservative proposals to do the same thing with Social Security?

1 Reply

Unions were subverted by our politicians and some unscrupulous leaders. Like every public institution, the way to fix their problems is to constantly tweak them to keep everything honest and functioning to benefit all concerned. Instead, they always throw out the baby with the bath water, when it's for the working people, whether its unions, welfare, or whatever.

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401Ks are not as good as pensions used to be. A pension is guaranteed. If the market crashes, 401Ks start dwindling fast.

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@edgarblythe,

Many pension plans have failed.

www.nytimes.com/2003/11/12/business/failed-pensions-a-painful-lesson-in-assumptions.html

www.heritage.org/jobs-and-labor/report/not-your-grandfathers-pension-why-defined-pensions-are-failing

Private sector insures through Pension Benefit Guaranty Corporation
Even though they are insured, total benefits per annum are usually less - in some cases substantially less, than what was originally planned or given prior to pension plan failure.

Public sector pension funds and plans also have difficulties.

At the end of it all, there is no financial security guarantee.

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@oralloy,

Quote:

if I wrote a book of gibberish

That shouldn’t be too hard for you...

1 Reply

@Olivier5,

It wouldn't be hard for anyone.

1 Reply

@oralloy,

It takes a certain evil genius to write true gibberish.

1 Reply

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