revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 10:09 am
@blatham,
Hurrah. I am so relieved.
revelette1
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 10:15 am
Not sure if the following belongs on the Trump thread or this thread or another thread. But since it involves two progressives issues, the environment and immigrants, I thought maybe here will be ok.

‘Pit of Infection’: Border Town’s Crisis Has Nothing to Do With Migrants

I am not sure why we haven't we haven't been hearing about this humanitarian crises before now. Seems to me it has reached a horrible unsanitary point every bit as much as the Flint situation did (or perhaps still does.) The article is a lesson in what lax regulations can and will lead to.
georgeob1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 12:26 pm
@blatham,
Detailed vagaries are no improvement on general ones. A broad ( and very general ) aspirational goal, supported by a coherent pattern of concrete goals and actions that achieve the general aspirational goal is indeed a meaningful strategy.

Alternatively, a very detailed list of vague and mostly unattainable goals many of which have never in history been attained, and unsupported by any path towards actually attaining them, is merely an adolescent fantasy.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:05 pm
@snood,
Edgar is an old friend and available, I'm pretty sure, for careful conversation. If that proves not true, I'll just send these fellows to pay a visit

[img width=400]data:image/jpeg;base64,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[/img]

We Canadians don't **** around.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:06 pm
@revelette1,
Yes, yes, yes.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:21 pm
@revelette1,
As I noted earlier, Liz Cheney has set her office on a project of encouraging all right wing politicos and media entities to push any/every incident of an immigrant committing a crime - the more gruesome, the better. No surprise for the GOP to replay the Willie Horton gambit - the party has become almost unremittingly vile. Cheney knows that immigrants cause crime at lower rates than citizens but using fear and hatred of colored others is her game to gain/increase power. I frankly don't know of another Republican politico more evil and more dangerous than her.
coldjoint
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:24 pm
@blatham,
Quote:
the party has become almost unremittingly vile.

You have managed the same yourself. Wishing people dead and slandering people with accusations that are never proven. You are as black as any pot or kettle I have ever seen.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:28 pm
@georgeob1,
George. We could discuss any of these issues but it just doesn't work when you say X in one breath and -X in the next. It doesn't really work to indict the GND for being insufficiently detailed and then to indict it for being too detailed.
snood
 
  4  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:33 pm
@blatham,
Couldn’t see the image. I don’t share your opinion that he would make himself available for “careful discussion”. In my recent experience he simply hurls accusations of unsavory motives at those who differ at all with his views of Saints Bernie and Ocasio vs. the corporate Dems.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:37 pm
This is too funny

Quote:
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
Today Elizabeth Warren, sometimes referred to by me as Pocahontas, joined the race for President. Will she run as our first Native American presidential candidate, or has she decided that after 32 years, this is not playing so well anymore? See you on the campaign TRAIL, Liz!
2:54 PM - Feb 9, 2019


Which gained this response from one individual (and he was certainly not the only one to point out was is going on)
Quote:
Jamil Smith
@JamilSmith
I try to never dignify this man’s tweets, but there is little doubt here that he uses “TRAIL” to evoke the genocidal Trail of Tears, and does so to land a political jab. Warren has taken justifiable heat on this issue—but he used the murders of Indigenous people as a punchline. https://twitter.com/realdonaldtrump/status/1094368870415110145
4:30 PM - Feb 9, 2019


And then Smith's tweet gained this response from Fox dude Hume
Quote:
Brit Hume
@brithume
Yes, because Trump is noted for his knowledge of 19th century American history vis a vis the native population. Jeez.


Everyone follow? Trump can't have meant to include a historical allusion because he's obviously too ******* uneducated and stupid to have done so.

0 Replies
 
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:38 pm
@blatham,
blatham wrote:

As I noted earlier, Liz Cheney has set her office on a project of encouraging all right wing politicos and media entities to push any/every incident of an immigrant committing a crime - the more gruesome, the better. No surprise for the GOP to replay the Willie Horton gambit - the party has become almost unremittingly vile. Cheney knows that immigrants cause crime at lower rates than citizens but using fear and hatred of colored others is her game to gain/increase power. I frankly don't know of another Republican politico more evil and more dangerous than her.

It doesn't matter at what rates immigrants cause crime because it's not about immigrants as a group. It's about the practice of using migrants for crime because they are vulnerable and susceptible to such exploitation for various reasons.

The Willie Horton ad may have worked as a political motivation because of racism among viewers/voters, but if Willie Horton had been white, the message would have been the same; i.e. that letting prisoners go free for the weekend can lead to them committing crimes. It's sad that that ad had to propagate racism instead of simply being about crime control regardless of the race of the perpetrator.
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:39 pm
@blatham,
Well what I'm trying to say is that Trump outlined, planned and has taken concrete steps that have contributed significantly to his stated, rather general, aspirational goal. Some other needed & planned actions are as yet incomplete or in a few cases not yet taken, mostly due to political opposition.

In contrast the GND is a fairly specific list of goals that are either not feasible or not attainable. There are no concrete actions that could be taken that would actually attain the various aspirational goals without a financial or economic catastrophe which would ultimately make the goals themselves irrelevant.

I believe the difference here is significant
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:42 pm
I immediately began to see Elizabeth Warren differently when they uncovered that she had claimed “Native American” as her ethnicity on a 1986 application for law school. Up till then, I had defended her because she had always said she had a tiny bit of Native American in her but that she had never tried to use that to self aggrandize.

The way I look at her now is much the way I look at people who falsely claim military or combat experience.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:47 pm
For a decade, I've been following (and evangelizing for) Ed Kilgore. He is just one of the smartest guys around. The piece is considerably longer than the portion I've included but I really hope people will read it. This goes right to the theme here in Edgar's thread. LINK
Quote:
As Democrats in Washington wrangle over the extent to which they support progressive agenda items like Medicare for All and the Green New Deal, and as a left-leaning 2020 presidential field is steadily shaped, it’s easy for veteran observers of the Donkey Party to feel a bit disoriented. After all, in presidential nominating contest after contest dating back to 1972, self-identified Democratic progressives have been regularly outmaneuvered by party “moderates.” And there were plausible reasons that kept happening, beginning with an electorate in which conservatives significantly outnumbered liberals, and moderate “swing voters” offered Democrats the only path to a majority.

By the end of the Obama presidency and its horrible sequel, however, Democrats had reason to feel cheated by this long history of ideological self-restraint, which left them weakened at nearly every level of government, awash in corporate power and economic inequality, and still fighting to maintain the achievements of the long-ago New Deal and Great Society eras while battling a new wave of racism and sexism.

The eternal rationale of Democratic moderates based on their superior electability hit rock bottom with Hillary Clinton’s disastrous general election campaign, and did not gain much traction from a successful 2018 midterm cycle in which voters did not seem to care what kind of specific ideology Democratic candidates professed. Looking ahead to the next era of Democratic governance, progressives make sense in arguing that a more clearly left-bent Democratic Party wouldn’t lose significant numbers of votes for being too “socialist,” but would have a mandate for accomplishing a lot more than the mixed and tentative records of the Clinton and Obama administration produced.

I say all this as someone with impeccable moderate credentials of my own as former policy director of the Democratic Leadership Council. There are still, I believe, substantive grounds for, say, preferring a public-private health care system linked to an aggressive strategy for fighting provider cartels, as opposed to a single-payer system, or for envisioning the future economy in democratic capitalist rather than socialist terms. But the empirical electoral case for “moderation” has never been weaker, and moreover, the tendency of moderates to compromise on principles rather than simply means of implementing common progressive goals has been demonstrated too many times to dispute...
livinglava
 
  0  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 02:56 pm
@snood,
snood wrote:

I immediately began to see Elizabeth Warren differently when they uncovered that she had claimed “Native American” as her ethnicity on a 1986 application for law school. Up till then, I had defended her because she had always said she had a tiny bit of Native American in her but that she had never tried to use that to self aggrandize.

The way I look at her now is much the way I look at people who falsely claim military or combat experience.

It's not 'self-aggrandizing' to report ethnicity. If Warren's law school used her ethnicity in a discriminatory way, that is their doing not hers.

snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 03:13 pm
@blatham,
He captured the current democratic dilemma and conflict perfectly. I really do understand the anger and frustration of those who see their progressive goals as being diluted and defeated by fellow democrats who may share their beliefs but may not be as scorched-earth in their approach. As messy as it is, Politics always comes down to a binary choice; a yea or nay vote; a choice of either this person or that - of this approach or that one. Like the choice your guy mentioned between single-payer or a more democratic capitalist approach to health care. The war of ideas on the left is important and necessary. But it seems to me the BEST we can do is try to get someone in office who represents a synthesis of our highest ideals and our most ruthless retail politicking.
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 03:14 pm
@georgeob1,
Quote:
Well what I'm trying to say is that Trump outlined, planned and has taken concrete steps that have contributed significantly to his stated, rather general, aspirational goal.
Let's set aside the questions regarding what Trump has "outlined and planned" and whether he has achieved anything much at all in relation to that. (Just one example: Trump's campaign promises regarding ridding the Washington "swamp" of lobbyists is the exact opposite of what he has actually done).

Quote:
In contrast the GND is a fairly specific list of goals that are either not feasible or not attainable.
You state this as a certainty but that certainty arises only as a consequence of your ideological certainties. The booming consumer demand for electrically powered automobiles (along with developed technologies in support of these products) is not something you nor I would have deemed likely or possible 10 or 15 years ago. Who, 20 years ago, would have placed a bet on seeing an African American in the WH in just a decade and a half?
snood
 
  3  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 03:15 pm
@livinglava,
Do you figure that Warren’s lie on her application was NOT an attempt on her part to improve her image or position? That’s the definition of self -aggrandizement. What else would motivate that particular kind of deception?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 03:35 pm
@snood,
I have argued with others here on this one. I have a persona/family story which is quite similar.

Our family, at least on my mother's side, was quite certain that we had some significant Jewish ancestry. Cultural similarities and physical appearance of many of us seemed compelling supporting evidence for that family story. And then there was the repeated instances (when Jane and I lived in the Upper East Side of NYC and had our jewelry store there) where Jewish folks automatically assumed that I too was Jewish.

Recently one of us had her DNA researched. No Jewishness for as far as the eye could see.

So I've never seen reason to presume Warren had behaved deceitfully. On the other hand, I have very good reasons to imagine that the right, understanding the political threat she represented and understanding that perceptions of her integrity as a real strong suit, would search for and then promote any character issue they could paint as dishonest. It is what they do. That was/is 100% guaranteed to be in play now.

Earlier, ehBeth suggested that choosing Warren as candidate would be foolish because beth deemed Warren un-electable (charisma problems). I understand her point but I don't subscribe to it. In a Pod Save America podcast I posted the other day It's here the question of electability came up. As one of the panelists argued (very smart experienced people, three of whom worked in the Obama campaign and administration) nobody knows who will turn out to be electable. The more important question to consider is how that individual will behave in the office. And here, I say, Warren is an exemplary candidate.
blatham
 
  2  
Reply Sun 10 Feb, 2019 03:44 pm
@snood,
Yeah. As AOC suggested in something I posted yesterday, fighting among ourselves and promoting the notion that "liberals" and "progressives" are natural enemies would be destructive to both. It is just ******* foolish and it is exactly what the right would want (thus what they will be working towards, overtly and covertly).

As a side note, I think that women are generally far, far smarter about this than we males. It is one key reason I am so delighted to watch women now rising up in civic life (not to mention in the arts).
 

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