Some men want to have casual sex with women, but don't want the woman to get pregnant.

Please tell me Chai... other than another cheap shot at the "fragile male ego", what does this have to do with abortion?

(Another unrelated question, Is believing that men have fragile egos part of feminism?)

In a healthy relationship of any kind (gay, straight, non-gendered etc. etc) partners please each other. This means that in a healthy heterosexual relationship each partner should meet the others needs, and have their own needs met. This is seems obvious.

If a woman is doing something because she feels she is protecting her partner's fragile ego... that is a screwed up relationship. I would say the same if the genders were reversed.

Feminism seems to encourage unhealthy views of sexual relationships; instead of two people who are meeting each others needs in a way that is mutually enjoyable, it is made into some weird battle for control. If my partner wants to do something sexual that makes her happy, I am in for it whether it excites me or not. I do it because I want to please her, not because I have any begrudging concern about her "fragile ego".

This is still unrelated to abortion, but what is wrong with healthy, respectful and mutually enjoyable sexual relationships?

maporsche wrote to: maxdancona
1. How would you feel if ED pills were banned and if women made up the legislative body that banned them?
2. How would you feel if vasectomys were banned and if women made up the legislative body that banned them?

Also, related to trolling...I think one of the key definitions of trolling is that the comment is off-topic. This is a thread where the topic is clearly defined and you seem to be the one off-topic here (this is NOT me calling you a troll, so please don't take it that way).

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

maxdancona wrote to: maporsche
Sure... I will play. I don't use ED drugs (although I am getting to be of the age where they are more popular), and I haven't had a vasectomy. But I will play along with this silly game...

1) The gender of legislators is irrelevant. I can't think of an example where I think the gender of my legislators matters. I voted for both of my current senators; Elizabeth Warren and Ed Markey.

2) I kind of get why you are making a big deal over the gender of legislators, given that abortion does impact a woman and that most of the legislature is male. However, the men in the legislature have passed pro-choice bills which I assume you think is acceptable. And 38% of women are pro-life including some legislators.

I don't see how you can have a democracy if you don't let legislators vote their conscience regardless of there gender.

3) I judge any law by the merit of such law. If ED medication was causing the death of unborn children, I would support legislation against it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Real Music writing to Max
Max, first of all maporsche showed nothing but respect to you in this post. Also Max, you are clearly trolling in this post. Also, you were very dismissive of these hypothetical arguments that was presented. In fact you showed a disdain and unworthiness to these hypothetical arguments. These hypothetical questions or arguments are being presented to show another point of view.

Max, you stated that "The gender of legislators is irrelevant. I can't think of an example where I think the gender of my legislators matters."

Well from a different point of view, not only is the gender of the legislator relevant, it is actually crucial in this hypothetical argument.

Max, you stated "I kind of get why you are making a big deal over the gender of legislators, given that abortion does impact a woman and that most of the legislature is male."

While you may not see this as a big deal, there are other points of views that do see this as a big deal.

Max, you stated "I don't see how you can have a democracy if you don't let legislators vote their conscience regardless of there gender.
I judge any law by the merit of such law. If ED medication was causing the death of unborn children, I would support legislation against it."

What does any of that has to do with the hypothetical argument that was clearly stated in this thread? You make complaints about other people trolling, when that is exactly what you are doing.

Remember Max, you are the one who said we should all respect different points of views, even if we may disagree with those points of views. I hope what you are asking other people to do also applies to you. This is suppose to be about open discussions of different points of views without disrespecting the views you don't like. Or dismissing points of views you don't like.

I think you misunderstand what it means to "respect" other points of view. It doesn't mean that you have to agree with points being made. There is nothing wrong with you considering the points I am making and deciding they are either wrong, or even that they are nonsense. A respectful discussion allows for disagreement about points. It doesn't allow for attacks on people.

You don't have to agree with someone to treat them with respect.

I never attack you personally, I certainly don't label you or call you childish names. That is the most important part of civility. (Just to point out, disagreeing with you about a point you are making, or criticizing specific behavior is not the same as insulting a person).

Furthermore, I judge each point you are making independently rather than rejecting a point simply because it comes from you. When I agree with you, I tell you so. There are several valid points that are being made by people on your side. I have no problem admitting this. There are other points that I think are invalid. That is what it means to have different points of view.

Don't make personal attacks. Consider each point independently regardless of where it comes from. I am not asking you agree with me, I am only asking that you accept open discussion.

Is that too much to ask?

No one said anything about agreeing with different points of views. The issue is your being very dismissive of different points of views. If you were to disagree in a respectful way, and not be so dismissive of different points of views, people might be more willing to hear what you have to say. You Max, showing disdain of different points of views can be seen as disrespecting that point of view. Example: Calling what someone consider to be important as being silly. Or putting less importance on someone else's arguments can be seen as snotty and disrespectful. You can disagree and be respectful at the same time. I just want to point that out.

This deserves a new thread which I have started here. You are dismissing my ideas (you sexist moron)!

The irony here is that the entire purpose of this thread is to be dismissive.

If you accept that the purpose of the pro-life movement is to protect life, then the thesis of this thread is meaningless. The primary reason that women and men want to restrict abortion rights is to protect the life of the unborn. I have not seen a single acknowledgment of this in this thread.

Correct me if I am wrong.... the thesis of this thread is that people on the pro-life side of the abortion issue are hypocritical assholes. You can't make this point if you accept that they are not actually trying to "enslave women".

I accept the argument that abortion involves the body of a woman, and that this gives her the right to make this decision. I have no problem accepting that this is a valid point. I also accept the argument that abortion ends a life. There is a fetus involved that has a heartbeat, a growing nervous system and at least the potential of a full human existence.

This thread ignores the valid argument, and instead tries to point out how bad the people are on the other side of the issue.

Okay. That is fine with me. Just remember you said it.

Agreed.

1. Thank you for pointing this out.
2. I obviously agree.