14
   

The wall

 
 
maporsche
 
  5  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 03:24 pm
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:
I agree with you about the cheap labor.
Which is why I believe that any company that hires illegals should be fined by the govt up to $5000 per day per illegal immigrant working there, and the illegals should also be arrested and deported.


Doing this would completely negate the need for a wall.
camlok
 
  0  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 07:51 pm
@mysteryman841,
Quote:
I am slightly concerned that a left leaning govt in DC would use the wall to keep Americans in, the way the East German govt used the wall.


They don't need a wall, mm, the brainwashing you all get from birth is way way more effective. It prevents you from thinking in any critical fashion whatsoever.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  2  
Reply Thu 23 Aug, 2018 07:57 pm
@mysteryman841,
How does your dumbass president propose to build a wall down the middle of the Rio Grande River?

He just doesn't think, which is why you all love him so much. Having a prez that doesn't think absolves the sexual predator's followers from having to think.

Win-win!
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 07:31 am
@maporsche,
maporsche wrote:

mysteryman841 wrote:
I agree with you about the cheap labor.
Which is why I believe that any company that hires illegals should be fined by the govt up to $5000 per day per illegal immigrant working there, and the illegals should also be arrested and deported.


Doing this would completely negate the need for a wall.


Any time you **** around with the economy in such a drastic way, it has consequences. Your simplistic soution would also

- put many family farms out of business
- drastically raise prices of many food items in the grocery store
- make it more a lot more expensive to eat out at a restaurant or go to your favorite tourist place.
- make it a lot harder for companies to stay in the US as products from other countries will be cheaper than American products.

You can't stop illegal immigration without making legal immigration work. The American economy (businesses and consumers alike) needs far more immigrants than our laws let it.

There is a strong economic incentive on both sides; businesses need to hire illegal immigrants, and illegal immigrants find it easy to find jobs. The only logical way is to make it easier for workers to come legally. Punishing American businesses with big fines will drive them out of business (at least in the US).
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 08:07 am
@maxdancona,
I'll assume that you were talking about MM's solution, not mine.
camlok
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 08:10 am
@maporsche,
Duuuuhhhhhh.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 08:35 am
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

There is a strong economic incentive on both sides; businesses need to hire illegal immigrants, and illegal immigrants find it easy to find jobs. The only logical way is to make it easier for workers to come legally. Punishing American businesses with big fines will drive them out of business (at least in the US).

Exactly. A common sense program would create 10-12 million work permits for foreign workers. This allows the workers to come and work legally, allows the government to enforce labor standards and collect taxes and provides tracability.
mysteryman841
 
  0  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:08 am
@engineer,
I don't know anyone that objects to LEGAL immigration, or guest worker visas.
The problem arises when illegal immigrants cross the border.
If they aren't willing to follow the law and come here legally, then they should be rounded up and deported.

The "dreamers" are crying because they might get deported, so what!
They have been here for most of their lives, have done nothing to change their immigration status, and now are crying that they might get deported.

And if these illegals want to live in the US, why is it that at every rally, these illegals always wave the flag of whatever country the came from?

I am 100% in favor of LEGAL immigration, but I am 100% opposed to illegal immigration.
If a border wall can help reduce illegal immigration, I am all for it.
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:14 am
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:

They have been here for most of their lives, have done nothing to change their immigration status, and now are crying that they might get deported.


If you're going to make a statement like this, I'm going to ask if you have any idea what the Dreamers could have done to change their status?

Quote:
I am 100% in favor of LEGAL immigration, but I am 100% opposed to illegal immigration.


Great. Do you want legal immigration to be how it is now? Do you want more visas and green cards allowed? Do you want less? Do you want to end family reunification? Do you want any changes to legal immigration at all?
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:16 am
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:
I don't know anyone that objects to LEGAL immigration, or guest worker visas.


You must not be paying attention to the news.
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:18 am
@mysteryman841,
Quote:
The problem arises when illegal immigrants cross the border.


That happens in other countries all the time when CIA agents go into countries to perform terrorist acts.

Compare the two, people wanting to feed their families and CIA agents bent of illegal terrorist acts.
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:56 am
Maybe our next president will be somebody from Mexico with a ladder and more fluent in the English language than the goddamned fool.

https://religionculturesociety.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/wall.jpg
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 11:58 am
@mysteryman841,
You have a one-sided partisan ideology that ignores facts. You have a right to your opinions, but you are missing facts.

1. The Dreamers have never been given any opportunity to change their immigration status.

2. There are lots of Dreamers who are fully willing to wave only the American flag (your pictures of a few exceptions don't change that), and there are many who would jump at the chance to serve in the military.

3. I have personally participated in rallies for the Dreamers where the American flag was waved prominently.

(If you are 100% in favor of legal immigration, please call your Congress members and tell them to make it easier for immigrants to come legally. This is a big problem right now).
camlok
 
  -2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:07 pm
@maxdancona,
The amount of US flag waving is indicative of and reminiscent of the Nazi state of Germany. But that should come as no surprise as they share many similarities.
maxdancona
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:09 pm
@camlok,
You are still boring me Camlok, it is predictable. Say something interesting and I will respond.
ehBeth
 
  3  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:11 pm
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:
I don't know anyone that objects to LEGAL immigration, or guest worker visas.


talk to the employers who like what they are paying for those illegal migrants (and look at where those businesses are making their political donations)

camlok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:13 pm
@maxdancona,
You have a very simple mind, Max. And zero attention span. And a deep hatred for science and the truth.

But other than that I suspect you are a decent fella.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:13 pm
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:
The "dreamers" are crying because they might get deported, so what!

They have been here for most of their lives, have done nothing to change their immigration status, and now are crying that they might get deported.


who tried to change things for the Dreamers?
who ended those efforts?
0 Replies
 
camlok
 
  1  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:14 pm
@ehBeth,
Quote:
talk to the employers who like what they are paying for those illegal migrants (and look at where those businesses are making their political donations)


That can't be true, ehBeth, because I have never heard Trump reference that idea.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  2  
Reply Fri 24 Aug, 2018 12:21 pm
@mysteryman841,
mysteryman841 wrote:
I don't know anyone that objects to LEGAL immigration


talk to your nearest GOP rep

https://www.cnn.com/2018/06/26/politics/republicans-oppose-legal-illegal-immigration/index.html

Quote:
Opposition to legal, as well as illegal, migration is hardening into a bedrock principle of the Republican Party.

With last week's vote in the House of Representatives on hardline immigration legislation from GOP Rep. Bob Goodlatte of Virginia, about three-fourths of Republicans in both the House and Senate have voted this year to cut legal immigration by about 40%.



http://www.people-press.org/2018/06/28/shifting-public-views-on-legal-immigration-into-the-u-s/

Quote:
Since 2001, the share of Americans who favor increased legal immigration into the U.S. has risen 22 percentage points (from 10% to 32%), while the share who support a decrease has declined 29 points (from 53% to 24%).

The shift is mostly driven by changing views among Democrats. The share of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who say legal immigration into the U.S. should be increased has doubled since 2006, from 20% to 40%.

Growing share of Democrats support increased legal immigration into the U.S.Republicans’ views also have changed, though more modestly. The share of Republicans and Republican leaners who say legal immigration should be decreased has fallen 10 percentage points since 2006, from 43% to 33%.

Still, about twice as many Republicans (33%) as Democrats (16%) support cutting legal immigration into the U.S.

The new survey, which was largely conducted before the crisis at the U.S.-Mexico border involving immigrant children being separated from their parents, finds deep and persistent partisan divisions in a number of attitudes toward immigrants, as well as widespread misperceptions among the public overall about the share of the immigrant population in the U.S. that is in this country illegally:

Fewer than half of Americans know that most immigrants in the U.S. are here legally. Just 45% of Americans say that most immigrants living in the U.S. are here legally; 35% say most immigrants are in the country illegally, while 6% volunteer that about half are here legally and half illegally and 13% say they don’t know. In 2015, the most recent year for which data are available, lawful immigrants accounted for about three-quarters of the foreign-born population in the United States.
0 Replies
 
 

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