BBrown
What does race have to do with it? To begin the descendants of those blacks brought to this country as slaves speak English they have been here longer than most of us or our ancestors. Those people both black, white, and any other hue who are recent immigrants should be learning and speaking the language of the land. All you have pointed out to me is that we foster the Balkanization of America by catering to these non-English speaking groups. Again although some like to reduce everything to racial terms since that seems to be the easy answer to all the ills that surround us. Race is not a factor.
Au,
What do you mean by the word "we"?
When I use the word "We" (capatalized to distinguish from your 'we') I mean American citizens.
Why should the government print material in English and Spanish and other languages? Well We want to do business with Our government in Our native tongue. It is Our government after all. They are supposed to serve Us. If they don't, We have the right to vote them out.
Why should "you" cater to non-English speaking groups? Because you are in Our country. If you don't want to do business with Us, fine. Don't try to force Us to follow "your" customs (whoever "you" are). We will not allow you to pass laws that exclude Us or our cultures.
I don't know who you think "You" are, but you are not speaking for the American people.
Most of Us are not worried about Balkanization. We can get along with each other pretty well in spite of cultural differences.
This discussion does not matter because you are a minority. You will not be able to pass the laws that would bring about your opinions becuase most American disagree.
We are Americans. *You* will have to adapt to living here (signs and forms in multiple languages and all). We Americans are not going to change for you.
But how can the country where citizens do not understand each other function? Rights and liberties are very good thing, but in absence of functionality these will not be protected either...
Oh, for pete's sake. Do you realize how many Asians live here? And how many different Asian tongues there are? Yet most of them who live here and work here and go to school here learn English. They do not demand we post everything in an Asian language because they live here. To them, they live in America, and it is axiomatic that the speak American. Germans, French, many of the Spaniards who come from Spain - to live and work here they learn English.
Steissd - of course it would be a tower of babel. And a lesson should be learned from that.
ebrown, I do not understand your belligerence. To be bi-lingual is a definite advantage, Nobody disputes that. In my family, among us, we are fluent in Spanish,Portuguese, French, Russian, Italian, German, some Japanese, some Greek, some African tongues. That is because language comes more easily to some of us, and two of my children work in fields that require them to have fluency in several languages. My daughter is a tri-lingual translator, who also speaks six other languages. That is just how it is, and I envy her her ability. She and my son travel extensively through their jobs, and everywhere, although English is spoken a lot, business is conducted in the language of the country. Road signs, restaurant menus, room rates, train schedules - all in the language of the country.
You say something interesting.
"Why should the government print material in English and Spanish and other languages? Well We want to do business with Our government in Our native tongue. It is Our government after all. They are supposed to serve Us. If they don't, We have the right to vote them out"
Spanish may be your native tongue, but it is not the native tongue of America. You want to do business with Your government in Your native tongue? I infer from that that you do not consider yourself to be American, but rather, hispanic first and American second. And that is the problem. It is again choice versus right. You can choose to live here, but you do not have the right to demand that things are done your way. If you can find a politician that agrees with your position, then of course go and vote for him/her. Good luck to you.
First for the record, I was born here and English happens to be my first tongue. Half of my family is very old Yankee (English, Irish and German). My aunt claimed that we had a relative on the Mayflower. I don't know the details but it is certainly plausible.
The other half of my family is first generation Mexican. I do have relatives that speak very little English.
My belligerence was provoked by the insistance that allowing people to do business in other languages is a bad thing. The statement that the government should not publish materials in other languages is ludicrous. I strongly object this.
The fact is the government regularly does business in Spanish and other languages. This is becuase many politicians and a large number of Americans agree with me. Tolerance and diversity is not a threat to America. it is one of the things that I love most about my country.
I am an American. I am very proud to be American. I love and cherish the diversity, vibrance, tolerance and freedom that we have worked very hard to obtain.
This is why I object strongly to what Au, steissd and others are saying.
As you said "You can choose to live here, but you do not have the right to demand that things are done your way."
Bien dicho. Ya voy a comer un burrito.
ebrown's earlier mention of Sandy Koufax was a profound example of common sense. Sandy was dedicated to his religion, so HE made the sacrifice. He did not petition Major League Baseball to move the game up to sundown Saturday.
when i travel in europe i notice that most all countries are proud of the fact that they speak many languages and have public (government) information in several languages and cater to english speakers, the reason being is because its functional and efficient.
Dyslexia, English became an international communications language, therefore Europeans cater to the English speakers. By the way, the English speakers are not only those that come from the countries where English is an official language. Tourists that do not know the language of the country they visit try to communicate in English, regardless of where have they come from.
Brown
You know darn well that when I said we I was talking about the government, let's not get cute.
As for doing business with the government it should be done with in the accepted language of this nation. If you want to do business with the government learn the language.
The language of "our' country is English not Spanish or Swahili, or French or Polish and etc.
Does speaking Spanish define your culture I doubt it.
you may think you have a right to be cute Brown, but look at the cute little puppy in au1929's avatar!
i honestly believe that language in the USA is a regional issue and not a national one, for example the state of Arizona is 1/3 native american lands with their own languages. 1/3 mexican people that have been there for over 300 years and 1/3 anglos. everyone adapts and thats how it should be.
Dyslexia
Can the descendants of the Spanish people who have been here 300 years speak, read and write English?
In the city of NY there are people from probably every country on earth. Imagine if we had to cater to them in the same manner as the Hispanics expect and at times demand
au1929 i would say that you are over simplifying the southwest, there are quite a large number of entire communites that are totally spanish speaking as well as native american communities. in those areas many are learning english but there are many that are not. when your entire community/town is spanish speaking there is not much motivation for learning english. there are few cities like you have in the east, we have Tucson, Phoenix, Albuquerque and a few others but mostly small communities that date back 300+ years. the vast majority of people i know personally are multi-lingual but that does not describe all the people. as these communities become more and more commercialized they adapt and learn more english because its in their best financial interest to do so.
Yeah booman, do you see what happened to that cute puppy in my avatar? Hint: it's the same thing that happened to the pistol packing wacko next to it.
If I may expound on my previous amens; As with most dilemnas, a balance must be achieved. In this case it's a common agreement on language which is the only thing to do in matters of communication, versus a courteus effort to make the transistion easier.
O-okay Brown, I guess you could call that...well...Balance!
dyslexia
Quote:au1929 i would say that you are over simplifying the southwest, there are quite a large number of entire communites that are totally spanish speaking.
Had no idea that there were areas in the US such as you describe.
What happens when these people go off the reservation so to speak?
