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Wed 16 Feb, 2005 05:31 am
Looking for some answers. 20 years of bad marriage is enough. I though about it. What would make my life better? A new house? Improving my business or profession. A vacation? More income...
No, I decided that the only thing that would really improve my life, is finding and curing the cause of our communication problems and years of constant conflict and fighting that started at the beginning of our marriage, and has continued unabated.
So, where can I find some help with our communication problems?
A book? A good counselor? a retreat?
I am afraid, that even should I be able to determine the problem, it won't really help our situation. Since, I can only correct my mistakes. Frankly it would be easier if all the problems were my fault. At least, then I could correct them, and then marriage would be great.
But, I know that not all of the problems are from me. There lies the problem. Whether my wife will decide if she is willing to change at all or to look at herself, and come face to face with her half of the problems. So far, she always, and I mean 100% of the time, that every problem is mine, and that she is totally without fault. At least, she never admits to any faults. I don't believe that she ever looks at her own faults. It's always the faults of others. Maybe that makes her feel better about herself. I'm a photographer, and she never says, that's a great picture. It's always a criticism, or that one is no good.
The crazy thing is that I like to have other's input. But, all I get from her is negative. I always leave my new photos out, and I can't remember her ever being interested enough to look at them, and make a positive comment. She's just not interested...in me, who I am, or what I do, as far as I can tell.
I constantly compliment her on her cooking, yet, she says that I never compliment her.
I feel that there is a major control issue here. and that she must be in control, make the decisions, and tell me what to do. It's definitely not a healthy relationiship. I think that if I look closely enough, that I will find some things that I am doing that enable the controler...give them permission, to overstep their bounds. I saw this happen in an email with a friend.
I also may have some control issues to deal with. In three emails that I have sent to close friends or relatives, I believe that I have overstepped my bounds. So, I have alot to learn too.
I don't believe that in the last 20 years, she has had any interest in changing or improving. It's like the last 2000 diets that she has started. All efforts end within the week.
She never overlooks any mistake I make, and I don't think that she ever forgives.
She has bad mouthed my mother for the last 10 years, and even after my mother has passed away, even after she says that she has forgiven my mother for whatever she supposedly did to her, she still bad mouths my mother.
She does have some very good qualities. She is hospitable and goes out of her way to help others if she likes them. She works hard, at least at what she is impelled to do, like cleaning, cooking, ...
But, in marriage, I feel it is essential that the good characteristics out weigh the bad ones in order to feel good about the marriage.
I don't feel that we have ever had a spiritual connection...a mutual understanding...an acceptance of each other, especially of our bad qualities.
99 times out of 100, if I say something, then she is going to contradict me, or disagree with my idea. To me, that is not my idea of unity.
For 20 years, I have been very unhappy with this marriage, and shortly after the marriage, whatever love we began with, was destroyed in fighting, disunity, and conflict.
I would suggest a counselor, first. If, and before you do anything, you need to understand why your marriage came to the point where it is.
Have you discussed your unhappiness with your wife? Does she realize that you might be at the juncture where divorce is a definite possibility? Sometime, a "wake up call" will cause people to rethink how they have been handling things. Do you even talk to her about your feelings?
Before you jump into a divorce that you may later regret, IMO, you need to exhaust all the possibilities, and give yourselves a chance for the two of you to set things straight. Counselling will give you the means of discussing all your difficulties, guided by a profesional, who can help you to see things more clearly.
There must have been something that has kept the two of you together for 20 years. You need time to think the whole thing through, and attempt to work things out. If all fails, you can always part.
One of the good things about going through counselling, is that if you DO divorce, you will be on much firmer ground, in your own mind, and will have resolved many of the conflicts surrounding divorce. Good luck!
Hello, ILoveSax, and welcome! You're right that you can only change yourself....but if you do, I don't think your wife will be able to continue with her behavior.
I don't think you have to decide Right Now whether to stay married. I think you can work on your own issues, work towards your own happiness, and the marriage will change or end.
I've known couples where someone is constantly criticizing and negative, every single day, for years on end. I've wondered how anyone can stand it!
I'm really glad to hear you're changing your life for the better. See a counselor and work on your own happiness (you've already taken the first step just by posting here), because life is to short to not pursue joy!
Best of luck to you. Hope to keep hearing from you in the future.
Phoenix,
Actually, I have considered separating for years, but just couldn't figure out how. When ever things got really bad, my wife would become very sweet for a couple days, then right back into the same pattern as before.
BorisKitten,
Yes, that is right. Good advice.
I will go to a counselor even if my wife isn't interested.
I have plenty in my character that needs some fixing.
Change is hard... (Even when a person wants to, much less when they don't). The only person you can change is yourself. But if you do change your own attitdues the situation is bound to improve.
Look for the positive. (PS complimenting her "cooking" is NOT complimenting HER).
Explore the negative. What are the Financial implications of Divorce. Are there Children?
What is the affection level in your marriage. Hugs, Kisses, Romance?
Make a SHORT list of the 5 things that irritate you the most and be more specific than SHE is always NEGATIVE.
EX: Comments about your Mom. Tell her it feels like she is insulting you when she speaks ill of your Mom, and that even God can't change the past, so do not bring up Mom, if she can't say something nice. Then MEAN it. Put up your hand like a STOP sign and say NO MOM..if she persists, leave the room or start singing Jingle Bells till she becomes quiet.
SMALL STEPS. Set some bounds you can KEEP that are not unreasonable. What do you have to Lose?
ALSO--Make a list of things (5) you REALLY like about her and throw a compliment her way when appropriate.
EX: It's really thoughtful of you to help so&so like that.
HOPE IT HELPS.
Sorry, ILoveSax, but I hold the opposite of love to be boredom/disinterest, not hate. She sounds disinterested, and counciling isn't going to help. It doesn't sound like you have issues to be worked out. It's more like a personality, which isn't going to change at this late date.
Just my opinion, of course. You are going to read and consider all, and make your own decision. A decision to do nothing is still a decision, of course.
Hello, ILoveSax. Welcome to A2K.
Living with a perfectionist or someone with a negative personality (glass half empty) is very difficult but obviously not impossible since you've been together for the past 20 years and I've been doing it for the past 16. The difference between us is that Mr B and I have a very positive relationship. No amount of counseling will change her from seeing what's wrong with the world to seeing what's right. You can, however, try to communicate your feelings about how her negativism affects you.
Just because she sees how something isn't perfect doesn't mean she has to vocalize it to you. There have been times when Mr. B gets bogged down in what's wrong. He doesn't even realise he's doing it because it's innate. After a while I'll suggest he stop and look for something to break the cycle. The question, as I see it is, does your wife recognize this pattern in her behavior and is she willing to acknowledge that her negativism is affecting those around her? If she is, then you can hope that she is concerned about your emotional well-being and wants to change the environment of your homelife. If she isn't, then I think you should pursue private counseling to help get some feedback on what direction you might choose to take.
I don't think you'll see the day when she spontaneously sees what's right with the world, it isn't her nature. But I do think she can work to make changes in how she interacts with you, if she's willing.
Good luck to you.
I really appreciate all your suggestions...
"Change is hard... (Even when a person wants to, much less when they don't). The only person you can change is yourself. But if you do change your own attitdues the situation is bound to improve."
I suggested that we seek the help of a counselor. She said that she would prefer working with someone on her communication skills by herself, and me by myself, then later maybe we could do something together. Only time will show if she does anything at all.
"Look for the positive. (PS complimenting her "cooking" is NOT complimenting HER). "
Obviously, I need to work on this area. I would appreciate more examples here.
"Explore the negative. What are the Financial implications of Divorce. Are there Children?"
No children but a huge potential finiancial problem should it come to that.
"What is the affection level in your marriage. Hugs, Kisses, Romance?"
Zero. I am a very affectionate, touchy feely, romantic kind of person. But, I find it impossible to be any of those things when we are constantly fighting. After 20 years of this, I'm not sure that my feelings would ever come back. About 6 years ago, something happened, and the feelings returned for a few short days, until we were back to the same old...
"Make a SHORT list of the 5 things that irritate you the most and be more specific than SHE is always NEGATIVE."
1. She practically never admits to being wrong.
2. Her Control issues. ie she tries to tell me what to say, when I am on the phone. She says that we must respect each other, but this is not my idea of respect. I tell her to stop, but she just can't stop herself.
3. I ask her often for her opinion, but she states her view as fact, with no possiblity for my idea or point of view.
4. Poor ability to give positive reinforcement. Uses negative reinforcement 100% of the time.
5. She calls up her friends and talks for 1 hour non stop. Then when she is finished she says goodbye, and never seemes to know any thing more about the person she was talking with. Our communication seems to be the same way. She likes to talk about herself, but doesn't care anything about me as far as I can tell. I always ask her how her day went. She answers for a long time, and then is finished. She doesnt' ask me how my day went and furthermore has no interest.
"EX: Comments about your Mom. Tell her it feels like she is insulting you when she speaks ill of your Mom, and that even God can't change the past, so do not bring up Mom, if she can't say something nice. Then MEAN it. Put up your hand like a STOP sign and say NO MOM..if she persists, leave the room or start singing Jingle Bells till she becomes quiet."
Good suggestion.
"SMALL STEPS. Set some bounds you can KEEP that are not unreasonable. What do you have to Lose?"
"ALSO--Make a list of things (5) you REALLY like about her and throw a compliment her way when appropriate."
I am going to work on this.
Roger:
"It doesn't sound like you have issues to be worked out. It's more like a personality, which isn't going to change at this late date. "
I agree. We seem to have opposite personalities. We also have bad qualities that conflict with each other.
I did a test once, and we were opposites in all 4 areas. No wonder we can't get along.
I would not say that she is a bad person. Perhaps someone else could be a good husband for her??? I don't know.
I just know that I'm not her perfect, or anywhere close, match.
J B,
"does your wife recognize this pattern in her behavior and is she willing to acknowledge that her negativism is affecting"
That seems to be perhaps the biggest problem. Recognizing and acknowledging her problems. She is always ready to accept that all the problems are mine, and none hers.
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