georgeob1 wrote:old europe wrote:georgeob1 wrote:It is worth a little reflection on the several other prominent examples history offers in this area.
I'm at a loss. Please elaborate.
Authoritarian bullies like Chavez, and the many who preceded him, from Cromwell to Robspierre. Lenin, Stalin, Mussolini, Hitler and the South American variants like Vargas, Peron, Stroessner, etc. usually proclaim themselves the due representatives of the people and the downtrodden, but they generally come to power with the aid and complicity of existing institutions or fragments of them (Army, Unions) and the actions of an organized revolutionary cadre. Most have been successful = albeit briefly - in gaining a broad measure of voluntary public support, but they rapidly supplement it with coercion and force. Interestingly most have been successful in duping hopeful foreign observers into belief in their rhetoric for a while, but usually the local poor are among the first to figure out the trufh that they have instead lost their freedom.
A well-known New York Times reporter won a Pulitzer prize for the stories he wrote in the mid 1930s praising the success of the Soviet collectivization of agriculture in Ukraine - while the Ukranian pesants themselves starved by the millions.
I see what you mean. I can see the basis of your argument that democratically elected leaders may be elected by the majority of the people, but may not be in the people's best interest. However, this is a very slippery slope. Sure, history points to numerous examples where a majority has supported a leader that was, in the longer run, devastating for the country.
On the other hand, history offers just as many examples of some exterior power being certain to know better what would be in the best interest of a certain country/people/nation, with equally devastating results for the country.
Your example of the Soviet collectivization is a very interesting example in that regard, as it shows some external
expert offering his opinion about the "best interest of the people". You'll see the irony in you citing this example while stating your opinion about Chavez's benefits for the Venezuelans.
And then you have the interesting example of Nicaragua, where someone who had been in power in the past, with the results well-known to anyone, has just been re-elected by the majority. Here, too, it was the support of the poor that got Ortega elected. (I don't want to talk too much about Nicaragua here, but the election results clearly fly in the face of the argument that people vote in favour of a potentially authoritarian regimist because they have no clue about what would await them.)
Btw, your point that Venezuela, as a country, isn't that poor at all is noted. I just don't think it makes any difference when you have more than a third of the population living below the poverty line.