JTT
 
  1  
Reply Thu 6 Dec, 2007 06:58 pm
georgeob1 wrote:
Who gave you "a job" here? Are you engaged in a mission ordained by a higher power?

You can find my views on the matter back in the earlier pages - before the dialogue was killed by your numbingly pedantic pasted screeds.


Your views can be summed up in a few words, George; slavish devotion to a string of corrupt and murderous governments.

People that actually have a sense of morality would not do this.
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Fri 7 Dec, 2007 04:13 pm
No man has ever lived that had enough
Of children's gratitude or woman's love.

A hasty general observation..
pouring forth words to hide one's image and logic is not my way of life.
Let me cut and paste to make it clear in due course.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 07:32 am
Here's a story of which I knew just some few details. It has direct relevance to how the US might consider, and act towards, Venezuela (or other countries in Latin America and more broadly, eg Iraq).

1970 - Salvadore Allende is democratically elected president of Chile
- Nixon orders CIA director Richard Helms to "make the economy scream"
- the Ad Hoc Committe on Chile, a group including representatives of major US mining companies with holdings in Chile, ITT, Purina, Bank of America and Pfizer set out to force Allende to back off on plans to nationalize the economy 'by confronting him with economic collapse'.

1972 - during negotiations between Chile and ITT, newspaper columnist Jack Anderson published a series of columns documenting how ITT had plotted with the CIA and the State Department to block Allende's inaugeration two years earlier.
- the US senate launches an investigation and uncovers a far-reaching conspiracy in which ITT had offered one million dollars in bribes to Chilean opposition forces and "sought to engage the CIA in a plan covertly to manipulate the outcome of the Chilean presidential elections."

1973 - Senate report released, finding that after the corporate/CIA/State Department had failed to influence the election, ITT changed its strategy to make sure Allende "would not make it through the next six months." Most alarming to the Senate was the relationship between ITT execs and the US government, including communications between ITT execs and Henry Kissinger and the preparation of an 18 point strategy for the Nixon administration that contained a clear call for a miliatary coup.
- When grilled by the Senate committee about his brazen attempts to use the US government to subvert Chile's constitutional process and its democratically elected government in order to further ITT's own economic interests, the vice president Ned Gerrity responded, "What's wrong with taking care of No. 1?"
(data from Naomi Klein's The Shock Doctrine, page 44, 45...citations noted throughout)
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 12:49 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
No man has ever lived that had enough
Of children's gratitude or woman's love.

A hasty general observation..


Actually it is an excerpt from a poem by William Butler Yeats.

blatham wrote:
...1973 - Senate report released, finding that after the corporate/CIA/State Department had failed to influence the election, ITT changed its strategy to make sure Allende "would not make it through the next six months." Most alarming to the Senate was the relationship between ITT execs and the US government, including communications between ITT execs and Henry Kissinger and the preparation of an 18 point strategy for the Nixon administration that contained a clear call for a miliatary coup.
Yup, and we did it again over twenty years later in Serbia, this time under President Clinton. In both cases the world and the country in question were well-served.
0 Replies
 
JTT
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 07:57 pm
blatham wrote:
...1973 - Senate report released, finding that after the corporate/CIA/State Department had failed to influence the election, ITT changed its strategy to make sure Allende "would not make it through the next six months." Most alarming to the Senate was the relationship between ITT execs and the US government, including communications between ITT execs and Henry Kissinger and the preparation of an 18 point strategy for the Nixon administration that contained a clear call for a miliatary coup.



georgeob1 wrote:
Yup, and we did it again over twenty years later in Serbia, this time under President Clinton. In both cases the world and the country in question were well-served.


I rest my case.

Quote:
Your views can be summed up in a few words, George; slavish devotion to a string of corrupt and murderous governments.

People that actually have a sense of morality would not do this.


Your sense of morality is no better than that of pond scum.
0 Replies
 
Amigo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Jan, 2008 08:28 pm
Ramafuchs wrote:
In the case of Venezuela, the media is more pro-active, with lots of grossly exaggerated editorials and op-eds, news articles that sometimes read like editorials, and a general lack of balance in sources and subject matter.

But Venezuela is not Pakistan. In fact, it's not Florida or Ohio either. One reason that Chavez could be confident of the vote count is that Venezuela has a very secure voting system. This is very different from the United States, where millions of citizens cast electronic votes with no paper record. Venezuelan voters mark their choice on a touch-screen machine, which then records the vote and prints out a paper receipt for the voter. The voter then deposits the vote in a ballot box. An extremely large random sample - about 54 percent - of the paper ballots are counted and compared with the electronic tally.

If the two counts match, then that is a pretty solid guarantee against electronic fraud. Any such fraud would have to rig the machines and stuff the ballot boxes to match them - a trick that strains the imagination.


http://www.cepr.net/content/view/1383/45/
Hey thats great. It's like........Democracy.

Not like America.

http://www.whitehouseforsale.org/
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 3 Feb, 2008 09:25 am
Quote:
General Fortifies Venezuela Against the U.S.
CARACAS - In 2002, President Hugo Chavez left it to his comrade and friend, General Raul Baduel, to defend Venezuela against external threats - especially threats from the United States.
General Baduel did just that: he achieved legendary status within Chavez's administration in April of that year for thwarting an attempted coup, which both men claim the U.S. government had a hand in (though the U.S. denies this). Baduel says while the coup unfolded, American boats entered Venezuela's waters and U.S. helicopters ran routes in its airspace. He could monitor them "with the same radars the U.S. used to monitor drug trafficking." Baduel's actions saved Chavez's regime and kept him in power.

Five years later, Baduel turned against Chavez and his administration. He retired last year from his post as Defense Minister and shocked Venezuela by publicly denouncing Chavez's constitutional referendum, dubbing it another "coup" to consolidate his power and undermine democracy. But even out of military uniform and away from official rhetoric, Baduel still harbors suspicions about the role of the U.S. government in his country...
http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/postglobal/america/2008/02/general_raul_baduel_venezuela_us.html
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Feb, 2008 05:02 pm
Quote:
Chávez's Fix
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20080310/wilkenson
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 02:09 pm
Quote:
Funded in part by the Bush administration, a six-year military offensive has helped the government here wrest back territory once controlled by guerrillas and kill hundreds of rebels in recent months, including two top commanders of the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, or FARC.

But under intense pressure from Colombian military commanders to register combat kills, the army has in recent years also increasingly been killing poor farmers and passing them off as rebels slain in combat, government officials and human rights groups say. The tactic has touched off a fierce debate in the Defense Ministry between tradition-bound generals who favor an aggressive campaign that centers on body counts and reformers who say the army needs to develop other yardsticks to measure battlefield success.

The killings, carried out by combat units under the orders of regional commanders, have always been a problem in the shadowy, 44-year-old conflict here -- one that pits the army against a peasant-based rebel movement.

But with the recent demobilization of thousands of paramilitary fighters, many of whom operated death squads to wipe out rebels, army killings of civilians have grown markedly since 2004, according to rights groups, U.N. investigators and the government's internal affairs agency. The spike has come during a military buildup that has seen the armed forces nearly double to 270,000 members in the last six years, becoming the second-largest military in Latin America.

There are varying accounts on the number of registered extrajudicial killings, as the civilian deaths are called. But a report by a coalition of 187 human rights groups said there are allegations that between mid-2002 and mid-2007, 955 civilians were killed and classified as guerrillas fallen in combat -- a 65 percent increase over the previous five years, when 577 civilians were reported killed by troops.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/03/29/AR2008032901118.html?hpid=sec-world

Quote:
Colombia's Right-Wing Paramilitaries and Splinter Groups

http://www.cfr.org/publication/15239/colombias_rightwing_paramilitaries_and_splinter_groups.html

All of which make the veracity of the following story questionable...
Quote:
Colombia seizes uranium from leftist guerrillas 27 Mar 2008 01:46:45 GMT
Source: Reuters

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N26278599.htm
0 Replies
 
Ramafuchs
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Mar, 2008 03:23 pm
Mistake me not please that i had ignored this thread.
I learn from you all
Regards
Rama
0 Replies
 
InfraBlue
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:29 pm
Election setback for Chavez's leftist revolution
The Independent UK
Sweeping gains for opposition in referendum on President's rule

By Phil Gunson in Caracas, Venezuela
Tuesday, 25 November 2008

The political map of Venezuela has been redrawn, after results from state and local elections showed the opposition to Hugo Chavez's leftist "revolution" was sweeping back to power in the capital, Caracas, and its three most populous states.


But both sides were claiming victory yesterday, with the government pointing out that of the 22 states (out of 23, plus the capital) that went to the polls, 17 were won by Chavez loyalists. They even included four whose incumbent governors had split from President Chavez and campaigned against his candidates.

"The path [we are taking] towards the construction of Bolivarian socialism has been ratified," Mr Chavez told the nation in the early hours, after arriving unannounced at a live press conference given by leaders of the ruling United Socialist Party of Venezuela (PSUV).

Turnout, at more than 65 per cent, was a record for local elections in Venezuela, reflecting the intensely polarised nature of the country's politics. President Chavez deliberately turned Sunday's contest into a plebiscite on his rule, saying 2009 would be "a year of war" if the opposition took key states. With his own popularity " after a decade in power " holding steady at about 57 per cent, according to one recent poll, the aim, said analysts, was to use this to boost the prospects of his party's candidates.
more. . .

0 Replies
 
fbaezer
 
  2  
Reply Tue 25 Nov, 2008 09:41 pm
To put it in other words, Venezuela is on the Bolivian, not Bolivarian, path.

The Bolivian path: a nation bitterly divided between the richer provinces in the opposition and the poorer ones who support the government; between the modern cities in the opposition and the rural towns who support the government.
The city poor are drifting away from Chávez just like the city poor in Bolivia drifted away from Evo Morales.

0 Replies
 
 

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