George, To you care to defend your statement against the information provided?
Britain's left-wing 'aristocracy' greet their hero Chavez
The Independent
Published: 15 May 2006
He has been described as a fearless champion of the oppressed poor against the corrupt rich and their American sponsors. But also as a dangerous demagogue subsidising totalitarian regimes with his country's oil wells. Yesterday in London, however, there was no doubt about what the hundreds who had thronged to see Hugo Chavez thought of him.
Around a thousand people packed into Camden Town Hall to witness a mixture of a Latin American populist rally, an evangelical meeting and a football match. The chanting, foot-stomping crowd thunderously proclaimed: "Ooh ah, Chavez no se va," as the President of Venezuela spoke.
The cry ("Chavez will not go") which originates from the streets of Caracas, and the barrios of those fiercely loyal to Chavez, came when he described attempts to overthrow him by, he claims, the US through their Venezuelan proxies.
And yesterday in the People's Republic of Camden the villains remained very much President George W Bush, his acolyte Tony Blair, big business and the forces of reaction.
Old Labour was present recalling its radical past with MP Jeremy Corbyn and Tariq Ali. Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone, who had invited President Chavez, was in the chair.
Banners of trade unions, human rights groups and the CND hung next to each other on the walls. There were also activists like Bianca Jagger and civil rights lawyer Gareth Peirce.
Mr Corbyn, never knowingly one to agree with Tony Blair and his cabinet, said New Labour had a lot to learn from Venezuela. Nicaraguan born Ms Jagger, said President Chavez was leading the fight against imperialism among a new generation of South American leaders.
Chavez was not meeting Mr Blair, whom he has called 'the main ally of Hitler' because of his friendship with Mr Bush, or his cabinet. He has no protocol reasons to do so as this is a private visit. He will, however, see around 80 labour MPs and a handful of Lib Dems today. William Hague, as shadow foreign secretary, is also said to be seeking an audience with El Presidente.
In a previous visit to London in April 1998, Senor Chavez has declared himself a convert to Mr Blair's Third Way. He was given tea with the Queen and dinner with John Prescott. Since then Mr Blair's popularity has waned, at least domestically, while President Chavez made this month's Time magazine's list of the worlds 100 most influential people.
The Venezuelan president has been building a Latin American open "axis of good" against "American hegemony". He has replaced the Soviet Union as the supplier of cut-price oil to Cuba, helped pay off Argentina's US2.3 billion debt to the IMF, and provided free medical aid to citizens of neighbouring countries.
This is part of a European tour by the Venezuelan leader. He has met the Pope in the Vatican and arrived in London after a rally in Vienna. Senor Chavez made his entry into the hall in North London yesterday one hour and 24 minutes late, apologising for his Venezuelan timing. A stocky figure in a charcoal grey suit, white shirt and red tie, the President was greeted with tumultuous ovation.
Mr Livingstone described the President as 'a beacon of democracy and social progress in Latin America' who has won his electoral popularity not least for introducing effective help and education services.
For the next couple of hours President Chavez, speaking without notes, sometimes rambling, presented his vision of the world the need for socialism, peace and justice, and the threat to these precious values from the 'genocidal and perverted' Bush administration.
He quoted Rosa Luxembourg and Pythagoras, Karl Marx and George Bernard Shaw. The biggest cheer came when he recalled the words of the former Mexican president: "Poor Mexico. So far from God, so close to the United States.''
Senor Chavez warned that Washington was even now planning an attack on Iran. This, he said, would "launch a conflagration". He continued: " We do not know who in the region would first reach for the nuclear bomb."
The President bitterly attacked America's foreign policy. "At this moment they are probably bombing Baghdad. How many children will die before the day ends? Why do they have to die?''
The President maintained that if the British government have the courage to stand up to the US it too will be targeted. "That is the fatal obsession of the US, the great lover becomes the great enemy.''
President Chavez claimed that there were plots 'well developed' in Washington to assassinate him. "I know there are plans to kill me, but I really don't care. It will not stop me.
"We may not live to see our dream of socialism come true. But the younger people will see this wonderful, luminous world, believe me."
Amigo wrote:George, To you care to defend your statement against the information provided?
I already have done so.
Perhaps you would consider showing us why the results of Chavez' policies will be any different from those achieved by other authoritarian socialists or corrupt populists (whichever he turns out to be.)
If this entirely irrelevant screed is taken at face value the CIA was responsible for nearly every significant event over the past 40 yrears in the hemisphere from Trujillo's assasination to the coup that deposed President Goulart of Brazil thirty years ago. A great deal of this stuff is nonsense taken from fantasy conspiracy sites that serve a certain paranoid, conspiracy-addicted mindset -- one that our friend Amigo appears to embrace.
I don't agree that the CIA is or was evil, unless your standard is that of Mother Theresa. If instead your standard is the practices of real governments in the hemisphere, from Canada to Mexico, Colombia, Peru, Bolivia, Argentina, and Chile -- not to mention lesser lights suvh as Haiti, The Dominican Republic, Nicaragua, Guatemala, El Salvador, Paraguay, and others, then the CIA most assuredly is not evil at all. Indeed it is and has been a force for freedom and justice.
Evidently Amigo fancies that he has convincingly demonstrated the merit of Chavez' programs and rule in poor, unfortunate Venezuela. I think not.
OK Amigo, let's accept -for the argument's sake, at least- that the CIA is evil and was even more evil during the Cold War.
Does this make Chavez a saint or something?
Could we move a bit beyond the Luke Skywalker vs. Darth Vader level?

Amigo, I am not in this thread to defend the CIA or the IMF (both are, for many Latin Americans, 3-letter 4-letter words).
This does not mean that any anti-CIA anti-IMF demagogue is good for the people.
Reality doesn't work that way.
If you want to live in the Pol-fi world (ok, not Sci-fi), be my guest. But, so far, in many posts in this thread you have reacted to arguments not with counterarguments, but by cut & pasting propaganda bites.
So far, I don't think you have even read my arguments against Chavez (and those are not pro-Bush, pro-CIA or pro-IMF arguments: just the thoughts of a Latin American concerned about the future of democracy in this part of the continent).
Like, have you heard of Chavez's threat to govern until 2021?
Nasty subject, eh?
OK Amigo, let's accept -for the argument's sake, at least- that the CIA is evil and was even more evil during the Cold War.
Does this make Chavez a saint or something?
So I ask again where is the case against Chavez?
Venezuela: Court Orders Trial of Civil Society Leaders
In ordering the trial of four civil society leaders on dubious charges of treason, a Venezuelan court has assented to government persecution of political opponents, Human Rights Watch said today.
July 8, 2005
Venezuela: Rights Lawyer Faces Judicial Persecution
Criminal Investigation Launched to Intimidate Critic of Government's Rights Record
The Venezuelan government should immediately halt criminal proceedings opened against one of Latin America's most prominent human rights lawyers, Human Rights Watch said today.
April 5, 2005
Letter to President Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías
In a letter sent to President Hugo Rafael Chávez Frías, HRW expressed deep concern about credible reports documenting that National Guard and police officers beat and tortured people who were detained during the recent protests in Caracas and other Venezuelan cities.
April 12, 2004
Venezuela: Investigate Charges of Abuses Against Protestors
The Venezuelan government should conduct a thorough investigation into allegations that state security forces have beaten and abused detained protestors this week, Human Rights Watch said today. The investigation should also examine the circumstances of killings that occurred during confrontations between protesters and police.
March 5, 2004
Venezuela: Chávez Allies Pack Supreme Court
The Venezuelan Congress dealt a severe blow to judicial independence by packing the country's Supreme Court with 12 new justices, Human Rights Watch said today. A majority of the ruling coalition, dominated by President Hugo Chávez's party, named the justices late yesterday, filling seats created by a law passed in May that expanded the court's size by more than half.
December 14, 2004
Testimony of José Miguel Vivanco
Senate Foreign Relations Subcommittee on Western Hemisphere, Peace Corps and Narcotics Affairs
Over the past year, President Chávez and his allies have taken steps to control Venezuela's judicial branch. These steps undercut the separation of powers and the independence of judges. They violate basic principles of Venezuela's constitution and international human rights law. And they represent the most serious threat to Venezuela's fragile democracy since the 2002 coup.
July 7, 2004
Court-Packing Law Threatens Venezuelan Democracy
When Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez faced a coup d'etat in April 2002, the international community roundly condemned the assault on Venezuela's constitutional order. Now, as he faces a recall referendum in August 2004, Chavez's own government threatens to undermine this country's fragile democracy through a political takeover of its highest court.
June 22, 2004
Rigging the Rule of Law: Judicial Independence Under Siege in Venezuela
The Venezuelan government is undermining the independence of the country's judiciary ahead of a presidential recall referendum that may ultimately be decided in the courts. President Chávez's governing coalition has begun implementing a new court-packing law that will strip the Supreme Court of its autonomy. This 24-page report examines how the new law will make judges more vulnerable to political persecution and help ensure that legal controversies surrounding the recall referendum are resolved in Chávez's favor.
June 17, 2004
Venezuela: Curbs on Free Expression Tightened
Amendments to Venezuela's Criminal Code that entered into force last week may stifle press criticism of government authorities and restrict the public's ability to monitor government actions, Human Rights Watch said today.
March 24, 2005
Venezuela: Media Law Undercuts Freedom of Expression
A draft law to increase state control of television and radio broadcasting in Venezuela threatens to undermine the media's freedom of expression, Human Rights Watch said today. Venezuela's National Assembly, which has been voting article by article on the law, known as the Law of Social Responsibility in Radio and Television, is expected to approve it today.
November 24, 2004
"Like, have you heard of Chavez's threat to govern until 2021?"
Yikes!
I haven't until this moment.
Can you expand?
