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Jeff Gannon, Jim Guckert, and... Prostitution?

 
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:01 pm
I mean.... tell her that I am loved by another woman.

Thanks Squinney for loving me.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:09 pm
Any time!





(but not, like "Me love you looong time" kinda any time. Just the regular... Nevermind.)
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 07:59 pm
Before the certification of "Jeff Gannon" as a White House reporter there was the Bush Administration's de-certification move against the Washington press. These two things are deeply related.


Great info at this site. I don't think anyone has posted this yet, but it goes a long ways towards explaining the negative image attributed to journalists over th last few years.

PressThink-Ghost of Democracy
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 09:24 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
Then how did Clinton get elected?


By two uncontested majorities of the vote. :wink:

Not so, Grasshopper. In '92 Clinton secured 43% of the vote, in '96 he managed 49%, a mere plurality, not a majority, in both elections. Had even half of the '92 Perot vote gone to Bush the Elder, the later would have achieved 47%, with ¾ of Perot's votes, the Republican candidate would have notched 52%.

In '76, Carter had 49%, in '64%, Johnson managed nearly 61%, in '60, Kennedy pulled just under 50%, as did Truman in '48. Conversely, in '52 and '56, Eisenhower pulled 55% and 58% respectively, Nixon achieved a 43% plurality in '68 (with Wallace at 13%) and was re-elected in '72 with 60%. Reagan got 51% in '80 and 59% in '84, followed by Bush the Elder's 1988 showing of 53%. In fact, since the time of Lincoln, only FDR and Johnson among the Democrats have achieved clear majority votes.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 09:38 pm
so just to show how fair play with numbers work Timberland how about posting the converse numbers showing the winners vs the losers in actual % of votes.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 09:42 pm
squinney wrote:
... explaining the negative image attributed to journalists over th last few years.


Do ya think just mebbe the likes of Dan Rather, Peter Arnett, Howell Raines, Jayson Blaire, and Eason Jordan - to name just a few - might have somethin' to do with the public's attitude toward journalists, just mebbe?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 09:52 pm
dyslexia wrote:
so just to show how fair play with numbers work Timberland how about posting the converse numbers showing the winners vs the losers in actual % of votes.


Here, enjoy. The President Elect

The matchups and results all the way back to 1789 are here, though Popular Vote tallies initially were not kept, and first appear in 1824.
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dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 10:01 pm
thanks Timber, makes a difference looking at the total numbers, first impressions are not always what they seem to be, right?
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 10:01 pm
Thats a fact, Dys.
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Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:31 pm
I stand corrected. I did mean to say plurality...

Were those two elections ever contested, and did they polarize a nation? And what does any of that have to do with fake journalism by neoconservatives?

Didn't Dan Rather apologize on national television? And aren't those other journalists not longer in the game?

Meanwhile, so many on the right are STILL on national television and STILL lying through their teeth.

Why do you supposed it took so long for Robert Novak to apologize after misquoting Howard Dean SEVERAL times before finally being caught in the lie? Why isn't HE out of a job?

Why would Sean Hannity lie through his teeth in denying Gibbons plagiarizism when it actually DID happen? Don't you neoconservatives do your research anymore, or are you just prone to lie through your teeth until you get caught, then apologize, and then move on to lie again?

Ya gotta love that neoconservative integrity when it comes to journalism...
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 12:46 am
Its clear some folks dislike seein' anything other than their side of the story presented.

BTW - Rather said he felt, given enough time, the documents would have been validated - hardly an apology of substance. He mostly apologized for gettin' busted.

And then there are the prominent bloggers whose effusive praise for Howard Dean and other Democrats appears to have been fueled by cash from interested paries.

And then, there's this:

"Iran is the only country in the world that has now had six elections since the first election of President Khatami (in 1997). (It is) the only one with elections, including the United States, including Israel, including you name it, where the liberals, or the progressives, have won two-thirds to 70 percent of the vote in six elections: Two for president; two for the Parliament, the Majlis; two for the mayoralties. In every single election, the guys I identify with got two-thirds to 70 percent of the vote. There is no other country in the world I can say that about, certainly not my own."

William Jefferson Clinton, Davos, Switzerland; PBS/C-Span interview by Charlie Rose, Jan 27, 2005


I would say, if reality is just a state of mind, it isn't a blue state.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 07:38 am
Speaking of Eason Jordan and his statement that journalists were being fired on by US:

Quote:
Freed Journalist Fired on by U.S. Troops

Fri Mar 4, 3:23 PM ET Middle East - AP

ROME - A freed Italian hostage was injured and an Italian intelligence officer killed Friday after a U.S. armored vehicle fired on a car in which they were riding in Iraq, Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi said.


Berlusconi, an ally of the United States who has kept troops in Iraq despite public opposition at home, said he has asked the U.S. ambassador for an explanation.


"Given that the fire came from an American source I called in the American ambassador," Berlusconi told reporters. "I believe we must have an explanation for such a serious incident, for which someone must take the responsibility."


The shooting occurred Friday at a roadblock near the airport. Berlusconi confirmed that the former Italian hostage, journalist Giuliana Sgrena, was injured by shrapnel. She was taken to a U.S. military hospital by U.S. troops, where she had a minor operation on her left shoulder to remove a piece of shrapnel, he said.


Bryan Whitman, a Pentagon spokesman, said a shooting incident occurred as the Italian woman was being brought into U.S. military control at Camp Victory, the U.S. military base near Baghdad International Airport.


He offered no other details, including whether anyone was killed or who did the shooting.
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timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 08:06 am
Yeah, squinney, that is a regrettable incident, and, as Berlesconi said, one for which "someone must take responsibility". The investigation yet is young, but it appears the American troops mannin' that checkpoint were unaware even of Sgrena's release, uninformed Sgrena would be headin' their way. And while its just "initial report" stuff, it appears the vehicle was operated in a manner not unsurprisin'ly likely to draw the concerned attention of those troops, and failed to heed warnin's. This sort of thing happens very quickly, accompanied most often by a bit of chaos and confusion.

From the evidence so far available, though naturally there are divergent accounts, it appears to me the blame falls most squarely on whoever failed to see fit to inform the directly-involved US troops of the developin' situation, along with whoever was operatin' or directin' the operation of the car which triggered the apparently appropriate-per-rules-of-engagement measured defensive response (the car was stopped with small arms fire, not taken out by a rocket or a tank round - which would have been much more expedient - if a bit messier and far less considerate of the occupants of the car). There is no indication the car sustained any further fire once it had in fact been stopped.

Somebody failed to get the word out, by all indications. I look forward to learnin' the results of the full investigation. Indeed, whoever is responsible for not seein' to the safety and security of Sgrena throughout her release needs to be held fully accountable. And whoever was responsible for the operation of the car - whether that was the driver, or someone in the car shoutin' at the driver, is most proximately at fault, IMO.



We shall see.
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Ethel2
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 09:24 am
yes, we shall.
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 09:33 am
Kinda like we'll hear more eventually about the anthrax killer of 2001?

Quote:
"David Franz, former commander of USAMRIID, said, "I think a lot of good has come from it. From a biological or a medical standpoint, we've now five people who have died, but we've put about 6 billion in our budget into defending against bio-terrorism."


Citation: First reported on ABC News, April 4, 2002. Then by Barbara Hatch Rosenberg, Chair of the Federation of American Scientists Working Group on Biological Weapons, "The Anthrax Case: What the FBI Knows" globalresearch.ca, July 10, 2002, p. 4.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 10:01 am
Quote:
And then there are the prominent bloggers whose effusive praise for Howard Dean and other Democrats appears to have been fueled by cash from interested paries.


There's a statement just begging to be asked, "What information do you have to support this allegation?"

If you want to accuse the other side of not accepting facts then could you at least PRESENT SOME? Things like this always make my blood boil. I don't care which side does it. Create a standard and apply it equally. #$**%& $$**@@ (all the swear words muttered under my breath)
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 10:04 am
Oh Timberland,
Would you care to refute the statement by CLinton? Did Iran NOT have elections like he claimed? Or perhaps the progressives and liberals didn't win like he claimed? What precisely is incorrect about that statement?

Reality is based on FACTS, not opinions. Dispute the facts or accept the reality.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 10:40 am
Transcript of Dan Rather's apology. Feel free to compare it to Timber's claim from earlier.

Quote:
Last week, amid increasing questions about the authenticity of documents used in support of a "60 Minutes Wednesday" story about President Bush's time in the Texas Air National Guard, CBS News vowed to re-examine the documents in question-and their source-vigorously. And we promised that we would let the American public know what this examination turned up, whatever the outcome.

Now, after extensive additional interviews, I no longer have the confidence in these documents that would allow us to continue vouching for them journalistically. I find we have been misled on the key question of how our source for the documents came into possession of these papers. That, combined with some of the questions that have been raised in public and in the press, leads me to a point where-if I knew then what I know now-I would not have gone ahead with the story as it was aired, and I certainly would not have used the documents in question.

But we did use the documents. We made a mistake in judgment, and for that I am sorry. It was an error that was made, however, in good faith and in the spirit of trying to carry on a CBS News tradition of investigative reporting without fear or favoritism.

Please know that nothing is more important to us than people's trust in our ability and our commitment to report fairly and truthfully.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 11:48 am
Attempting to re-track this thread (assistance please),

Squinney,

Your link posted on the last page - This one - is by far, by far one of the most informative I've read on this subject.

They've done an excellent job of documenting and proving the pattern of media exclusion and manipulation the Bush admin. is guilty of.

I implore you, folks, READ THIS PAGE!!!!!!!

snippet (there's tons more)

Quote:
In the Press Room of the White House that is Post Press
Before the certification of "Jeff Gannon" as a White House reporter there was the Bush Administration's de-certification move against the Washington press. These two things are deeply related.
The little Secret Service agent at the National Constitution Center seems more interested in John Ashcroft's tight USA Patriot Act spin-tour schedule than any constitutional rights when he stops me from following a flock of television reporters heading for a brief presser with the man who could not even beat a corpse.
That's Howard Altman of Philadelphia's City Paper (Aug. 28, 2003) describing the experience of trying to cover Attorney General John Ashcroft during his speaking tour on behalf of the Patriot Act.

As the flock disappears down a hall in a hurried scurry, the bespectacled woman in the black dress who could have been Ainsley, the perky Republican from The West Wing, looks at me and waxes apologetic. "I am sorry," she says as the last of the camera crews whiz by. "But he is not talking to print. Only talking to television."
That was when I first became aware that the Bush Administration was putting an end to business-as-usual between the executive and the press. Aschroft had Secret Service agents, or others in his employ, bar newspaper reporters--including of course those at the big national dailies--from press opportunities as he traveled the country arguing for the Patriot Act.

It was a sign: new sherriff in town. "We know who our friends are." All that. Aschroft wasn't the first to declare local TV the only interview worth doing. Except there were certain ideas attached to his move, and these led outward from the Patriot Act into the wider political culture. Ideas like: Eliminate the filter (and guess who that is?) Howard Kurtz reported this on Sep. 15, 2003:

Justice Department spokeswoman Barbara Comstock says her boss, with few exceptions, is only granting short interviews to local TV stations as a way of "explaining key facts directly to the American people and not having as much of a filter from people who are already invested in having a different view of it."

Ashcroft's person tells us the story right there. She says it is legitimate to exclude the traditional press, and deny it the role of questioner on behalf of the public, because a.) this group has forfeited all claim to legitimacy by being so invested in a "different view;" and b.) the Attorney General is perfectly capable of explaining the key facts to the American people himself, with the kind assistance of local television stations (she did not say "reporters") who know enough not to filter the message.

It is true that all Administrations want to speak to the nation in an unfiltered way; there's nothing notable about that. All at one time or another see the press as "against" them. All cry foul-- and in the name of the facts! Hating the press is normal behavior in the White House. So is favoring the sympathetic correspondent. What Ashcroft was doing went beyond all this.

There's a difference between going around the press in an effort to avoid troublesome questions, and trying to unseat the idea that these people, professional journalists assigned to cover politics, have a legitimate role to play in our politics. Ashcroft was out to unseat that idea about the traditional press. He wanted it out of the picture of how you battle for public opinion.

"He is not talking to print. Only talking to television."

John Ashcroft in the fall of '03 was simply doing his part in a broader de-certification move that has been mounted against the political press since 2001. His tactics turned out to be among the milder measures the Bush forces were willing to take in pursuit of a policy that I would call post press-- meaning after it is declared from the top that journalists represent no one but themselves.

Before the certification of "Jeff Gannon" as a White House reporter who was good to go there was the Bush Administration's de-certification move against the Washington press, which it felt had to go. These two things are deeply related.

The idea that joins them was stated by Andrew Card, Bush's chief of staff: "They don't represent the public any more than other people do. In our democracy, the people who represent the public stood for election," said Card. "I don't believe you have a check-and-balance function."

See? No check and balance role. Not representative. That's post-press thinking, coming from the Chief of Staff. It is a political innovation for which Bush does not get enough credit.


How is anyone surprised by this?

It's the republican MO all over again - direct mail, talk radio, internet, now subverting the printed news, in order to remove anyone who can question or point out your lies and mistakes! This is how the Republican party has come to dominance; they've found ways of communicating with folks in which there are no checks and balances, no retractions, nothing; just straight-up propaganda.

Cycloptichorn
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squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 11:57 am
Cyclop - I spent about an hour there last night before posting it, reading and checking links. Very informative, and to me it put a shining light on exactly what is happening.

The medias importance shows up in a link FoxyFire supplied on another thread that shows results of polls questioning the public on the importance of and trustworthiness of media. The problem would seem to be that the public isn't aware of the manipulation and limitations being placed on the press.

http://www.pollingreport.com/media.htm

(Go to about halfway down the page)
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