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Jeff Gannon, Jim Guckert, and... Prostitution?

 
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:16 pm
Dookie wrote:
What matters is the continued hypocrisy from neoconservatives who are willing to demonize the homosexual community in one breath, and then flalsely defend it in the next.


Are you suggesting the homosexual community needs to be "defended"? From whom?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:17 pm
I find it quite telling that there are several instances where the RWNM (Right Wing Noise Machine) points towards either G/G or Armstrong Williams, etc. as their source for news. Hannitty, Rush, O'reilly all claimed their first source for news about the Dan Rather memos was: That's right, Talon News and Gannon.

See how the machine works? The administration makes up lies/spin. They disseminate it to their direct cronies. These cronies inspire/disseminate the news to the indirect cronies in the mainstream news. Soon it seems as if there is a large body of journalists all talking about the same issue, which makes a lot of noise; and it's hard to track back where it starts. Beautiful use of propaganda.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:17 pm
Dookie, Cycloptichorn has made it abundantly clear that he does not wish to discuss Gannon's alleged homosexuality. He will be here shortly to scold you on your repeatedly bringing that issue to the forefront of the converstaion. Right Cyc.?
0 Replies
 
FreeDuck
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:28 pm
Anybody know how Gannon got so many scoops and such great access to "Our Leader"?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:30 pm
That's right, though I think this line

Quote:
Buy a clue, McGentrix; he is gay. But that doesn't matter.


Is pretty accurate. The real problems don't have anything to do with his sexualtiy at all.

Dookie, do us a favor and don't even bring it up; you can't even mention it without McG jumping all over it as your only argument, even if you list three or four paragaphs of coherent arguments.

McG, would you care to be the better man and actually adress some issues here?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:33 pm
McGrentix:

Quote:
Dookie, Cycloptichorn has made it abundantly clear that he does not wish to discuss Gannon's alleged homosexuality.


That's why I listed what matters.

The neoconservatives silence is deafening regarding Gannon's posted pix of himself.

And yet they have no problem embracing the Swift Boat idiots and their AARP demonization campaign, whereas they accuse senior citizens of being against our troops, but for two guys kissing.

Amazing, really. Too bad Tico seems rather clueless to the whole situation.

But I would expect no less.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:35 pm
FreeDuck wrote:
Anybody know how Gannon got so many scoops and such great access to "Our Leader"?


Perhaps it was his mad journalistic skills?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:41 pm
Quote:
Perhaps it was his mad journalistic skills?


Yeah, he didn't have any of those.

When he was admitted the the WH, he didn't have a single published article. Those that he wrote afterwards were in many cases copied (plagarized) straight from other sources, along with many other Talon news stories. So I doubt it was his 'mad skillz, yo.'

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:41 pm
Let's help McGentrix out by listing the issues for him:

Unfettered access to the White House despite no prior credentials whatsoever

Invited by the Bush Administration to the annual Christmas party before Talon News existed

Plagiarizing GOP and FOX talking points practically word for word - I thought people got sued for that?

Claiming to have had access to the Valerie Plame files (apparently the only journalist to make that claim), and then insinuating a redaction; which is it?

Asking the most idiotic and subjective questions to the press secretary and Bush at just the right moment, when all those other "hard" questions from actual journalists began to zero in on the truth.

But, hey, journalism seems to be officially dead now. And now the GOP shills are redefining journalism in some parallel universe it would seem. Kinda like that Star Trek episode where everything is different, and the Enterprise crew are all murderous thugs, assasinating each other in order to advance in rank.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:43 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
McGrentix:

Quote:
Dookie, Cycloptichorn has made it abundantly clear that he does not wish to discuss Gannon's alleged homosexuality.


That's why I listed what matters.

The neoconservatives silence is deafening regarding Gannon's posted pix of himself.

And yet they have no problem embracing the Swift Boat idiots and their AARP demonization campaign, whereas they accuse senior citizens of being against our troops, but for two guys kissing.

Amazing, really. Too bad Tico seems rather clueless to the whole situation.

But I would expect no less.


#10 & #11
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:44 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:

How did G/G get access to the WH when he didn't work for a news organization and had no published pieces?


I do not have access to his full resume, but I'll assume that he did it the same way every other person does. Have you done any in depth research into Gannon's past reporting? Do you have any evidence that he was unqualified to gain access to the whitehouse?

Quote:
How did he get in for years on a 'day pass' in violation of SS and WH policy?


He showed up every morning asking for one.

Quote:
How was G/G involved with the Thune campaign so closely in their smear of Daschle?


He has a nose for news.

Quote:
How did G/G receieve secret, confidential information about the Valerie Plame outing? Why hasn't he been called before Fitzgerald to talk about how he got this memo; one that he actually DID write an article about, as opposed to the reporters facing jail time who didn't even write any articles?


Source for this? I haven't seen the evidence about this beyond allegations.

Quote:
How did G/G get paid? Where did the money come from? What is the relationship between G/G and Bruce Eberle? Between Eberle and Karl Rove? We know the ties are there due to the direct-mail connection.


Probably by the word like most reporters. paid for by the people publishing what he wrote about. Maybe Eberle was his friend from college. There is no connection between Eberle and Rove other that professional connections that may arise from their common interests and jobs.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:45 pm
For those arguing the 'you can't define a journalist' angle:

http://timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=336813&category=REXSMITH&BCCode=&newsdate=2/27/2005

Quote:
Principles, ethics in journalism



First published: Saturday, February 26, 2005

Sometimes advertisers create lines or scenes so memorable that they're cemented into the culture. Here's one: "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV." That was Robert Young, who played Marcus Welby, M.D., with such credibility that a drug company hired him to put on a white lab coat and hawk its product in a commercial.

Dr. Welby came to mind the other day when some of us were kicking around the tale of Jeff Gannon, who wasn't really a journalist but played one in the White House. Actually, he wasn't really Jeff Gannon, either; his name is James Guckert, and he might still be in the White House briefing room if not for the fact that Gannon/Guckert didn't play his assigned role as well as Welby/Young played his.

Maybe you missed the story: Gannon/Guckert had been showing up at the White House for a couple of years, holding prized credentials issued by the White House and lobbing softball questions at press secretaries. He claimed to be a correspondent for a news agency called Talon News. But Talon, it now appears, doesn't really distribute much news. It's an offshoot of an organization called GOPUSA, which is an arm of a Texas-based Republican direct marketing and fund-raising firm.

Gannon's downfall came after President Bush called on him in a press conference a month ago, and Gannon asked a wildly partisan question. It's worth noting that reporters assigned to the White House sometimes wait years before they get to pose a question to the president; there aren't very many press conferences, after all, and there are dozens of arms still waving in the air when the president leaves the room.

But Bush picked Gannon, for some reason, who asked a question by first discussing two Democratic senators, and then saying, "How are you going to work with people who seem to have divorced themselves from reality?"

Reporters can ask some odd questions, you know, but in my years of covering politics I never heard one with quite such a blatant bias. Heads turned. And people suddenly started asking questions about Gannon. We learned not only about the Gannon/Guckert and Talon/GOPUSA name disguises, but also that pictures of Gannon/Guckert naked had appeared on Web sites, on which he offered himself as a $200-an-hour escort for gay men, and that some of his stuff on the Talon/GOPUSA Web site apparently amounted to White House press releases passed along as though they were real stories.

This isn't even the most significant fakery in the name of journalism recently. Only a few weeks ago, three different syndicated columnists were revealed to have accepted money from the Bush administration before they wrote pieces favorable to the President's policies. And we shouldn't forget those "video news releases" from the Department of Health and Human Services, aired in some local TV markets (not ours, thankfully), in which actors posing as Washington correspondents gave one-sided accounts of government policies, packaged to look like reports we watch on news shows.

I'm not here to rant about all these as cynical attempts by the Bush administration to manipulate press coverage. I can't speculate why or how Gannon/Guckert got those press credentials or who might have known that his paycheck was coming from a partisan. The Washington-based columnists are better positioned than I am to judge that stuff. What draws my attention to Gannon/Guckert and the greedy columnists and the fake correspondents is the opportunity to differentiate fair journalism from fraud, the good from the mock.

Two simple principles ought to guide anybody who claims to be a journalist in a free society: First, reporters must seek the truth and report it fully; second, they must act independently.

Columnists and commentators, hoping to guide our thinking to match their own, get a bit more leeway -- they get to have their own views, though not their own set of facts. They still have the responsibility of ethical and intellectual independence so they can be honest purveyors of opinion.

What got Gannon/Guckert kicked out of the White House was simply this: He didn't ask an honest question and write an honest story. He wasn't a journalist, and even though he tried to look like one and sound like one, he didn't play the role right by following the ethical principles that are our fundamentals. Some things take more than acting ability.

Rex Smith is editor of the Times Union.


Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 12:53 pm
Dookie has listed the "issues." For the sake of discussion, lets assume you have your facts straight:

Dookiestix wrote:
Unfettered access to the White House despite no prior credentials whatsoever


And this signifies what, in your mind?

Dookiestix wrote:
Invited by the Bush Administration to the annual Christmas party before Talon News existed


Again, this signifies what?

Dookiestix wrote:
Plagiarizing GOP and FOX talking points practically word for word - I thought people got sued for that?


It would appear he was not very original when he did that. You should know that people only get sued if somebody files a lawsuit against them.

Okay, now that we've established that ... what else does this signify in your mind?

Dookiestix wrote:
Claiming to have had access to the Valerie Plame files (apparently the only journalist to make that claim), and then insinuating a redaction; which is it?


Do I care .... hmmm .... no, I don't. But, what does this signify to you?

Dookiestix wrote:
Asking the most idiotic and subjective questions to the press secretary and Bush at just the right moment, when all those other "hard" questions from actual journalists began to zero in on the truth.


Yes, a softball question. Other than that, what does this signify to you?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:02 pm
Um, me thinks Tico missed this quote, which address the core issue of the Gannon/Guckert fiasco:

Quote:
What got Gannon/Guckert kicked out of the White House was simply this: He didn't ask an honest question and write an honest story. He wasn't a journalist, and even though he tried to look like one and sound like one, he didn't play the role right by following the ethical principles that are our fundamentals. Some things take more than acting ability.


So, by all means Tico, you go right ahead and defend what you consider to be journalistic integrity, because, as stated above, some things do take more than one's acting ability it would seem...

Laughing
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:03 pm
Where's Rex Smiths commentary on the CBS debacle? After all, he claims that "Two simple principles ought to guide anybody who claims to be a journalist in a free society: First, reporters must seek the truth and report it fully; second, they must act independently."

CBS and Dan Rather did not fulfill his two simple principles...
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:04 pm
Cyclops: Did Mr. Smith define a "journalist" in his article? If he did, I missed that part. He does argue that a journalist should have ethics, and while I tend to agree, I do not believe there are any hard rules on that issue.

Lawyers have a list of ethical rules we must follow. If an attorney doesn't follow all of the ethical rules, he/she does not cease being a lawyer as an immediate result. (Of course they can be disbarred, but that's another matter.)
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Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:06 pm
Dookiestix wrote:

So, by all means Tico, you go right ahead and defend what you consider to be journalistic integrity, because, as stated above, some things do take more than one's acting ability it would seem...

Laughing


Please identify what I've said which has lead you to believe I'm trying to defend what I consider to be"journalistic integrity."
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:08 pm
Quote:
I do not believe there are any hard rules on that issue.


Ah yes, but of course you don't...
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:21 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
Quote:
I do not believe there are any hard rules on that issue.


Ah yes, but of course you don't...


If you have information that you are relying upon that forms a basis for your belief that I'm wrong on this point, please share. Otherwise, it appears you and PDiddie are operating on faith on this issue, and your condescension is, as usual, misplaced. ......
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Feb, 2005 01:27 pm
All right! Actual discussion!

Unlike you, McG, I (and mostly others) have done a great deal of research into this topic. Therefore, I would like to answer your 'answers' very much.

Quote:

How did G/G get access to the WH when he didn't work for a news organization and had no published pieces?

I do not have access to his full resume, but I'll assume that he did it the same way every other person does. Have you done any in depth research into Gannon's past reporting? Do you have any evidence that he was unqualified to gain access to the whitehouse?


Yes, I do have that evidence.

Much of it is hard to present as Gannon's personal website, and his news site, Talon News, have both been removed from the Web. Why? Why would a real reporter/news organization do such a thing? Why are they trying to hide the stories he's written over the last few years? But that's another question.

G/G didn't have a single published article when he was given access to the WH. He hadn't attended Journalism School. He didn't even work for a news company - Talon News, his 'news site,' didn't even start up until months after he first was seen in the WH press room, back when Ari Fleischer was press secretary.

The WH, even when handing out day passes, is supposed to check to see if someone is actually a reporter or not. They either didn't check, or waved him through anyways, knowing that he wasn't a real reporter. This is unsuprising given the admin's record of paying journalists off; we know that they use propaganda. You can't even argue this one, as it is fact.

Quote:

How did he get in for years on a 'day pass' in violation of SS and WH policy?



He showed up every morning asking for one.


Your answer, while glib, doesn't fully explain the situation. Not even close.

EVERY OTHER person who reports from the WH press room on a daily basis gets vetted for a hard pass. There is NO other regular reporter that gets in with a day pass.

The WH press room day pass is designed for out-of-town reporters or specialty reporters to have access to the press room. It is NOT designated for returning reporters; they have to get VETTED by the SS in order to get a hard pass.

G/G was never vetted for a hard pass, despite the fact that he showed up daily, just like the other reporters who were given hard passes. He wasn't an out-of-towner.

Why was G/G not vetted for a hard pass? It's the SS's job to do such things for returning reporters, yet they did not. It is quite obvious that someone was letting him in without following the proper channels, which is a serious security breach.

Quote:

How was G/G involved with the Thune campaign so closely in their smear of Daschle?


He has a nose for news.


Really? It wasn't a district that he covered regularly. He didn't even live in the area or report on it regularly. How did he get started?

It turns out that he, like many other 'independent' bloggers, were getting paid by the Thune campaign. Another clear example of propaganda.

http://www.salon.com/opinion/conason/2005/02/18/gannon/



Quote:

How did G/G receieve secret, confidential information about the Valerie Plame outing? Why hasn't he been called before Fitzgerald to talk about how he got this memo; one that he actually DID write an article about, as opposed to the reporters facing jail time who didn't even write any articles?

Source for this? I haven't seen the evidence about this beyond allegations.


Gannon not only wrote several posts at Freerepublic.com claiming to have seen the memos personally, he did an interview with Joe Wilson in which he claimed to have a COPY of the memo. Either he was lying, or he had access to secret documents which he shouldn't have had. Google either one, there's plenty out there on it.

Quote:

How did G/G get paid? Where did the money come from? What is the relationship between G/G and Bruce Eberle? Between Eberle and Karl Rove? We know the ties are there due to the direct-mail connection.


Probably by the word like most reporters. paid for by the people publishing what he wrote about. Maybe Eberle was his friend from college. There is no connection between Eberle and Rove other that professional connections that may arise from their common interests and jobs.


Virtually every reporter in the world is transparent about who is paying them. There is no indication whatsoever if Talon News paid Gannon, if GOPUSA paid Gannon, and where THEIR money comes from - it's not as if either is a subscription-based service. Therefore, it is not at all clear where the money came from. Given that the Admin. has been caught red-handed paying journalists, this is a valid question.

I've bolded the second part, because you have no way at all of knowing whether or not that is true. None at all. There exists a large possibility that there is a connection between them, and what you call 'common interests and jobs' can mean a hell of a lot when one is the highest-powered political advisor in the country and the other is a propaganda artist.



You have failed to satisfactorily answer any of my questions, other than to display that you really don't know any of the history of the scandal. I suggest you do some background reading before attempting to answer points; I know it's harder than just accusing people of being homophobic, but it makes your case, yaknow, stronger...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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