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America Fascist ??

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 03:17 pm
Let's put a silly myth to bed, shall we?

Contrary to what some believe, American politics is not devolving into a state of fascism.

We read and hear warning cries alerting us to the supposed incipient fascist threat quite often nowadays. Many of these "alerts" inform us that our freedoms and liberties are at risk, that the American democratic-republic is gradually giving way to an authoritarian or totalitarian establishment, and that our leaders are reminiscent of Nazis. Thus we have Internet threads comparing George W. Bush with Hitler, or at the very least, with Mussolini or Leonid Brezhnev. By extension of the Hitler analogy, America may be like Germany in 1939 -- on the cusp of embracing fascism if it hasn't completely done so yet.

You might shrug off this kind of rhetoric by saying that it is confined to crank quarters of the punditocracy, and to be sure, those who argue that America is sliding into fascism are ripe for ridicule. But the argument -- while wrong -- has the virtue of being simple and simplistic, meaning that it has the potential to be spread rather easily. (This is most interesting -- usually it is the fascists who have the simplistic arguments on their side. In this debate, however, it is the supposed anti-fascists who are trying to win converts to their argument with simplistic cries about fascism being in the ascendant in the United States.) Because the argument of "America as the Fascist State" can be so easily spread through simplistic arguments, it is high time to fight the demagoguery with a little perspective.

A key component of the fascist state is the presence of authoritarian or totalitarian laws that clamp down on civil liberties. Those who decry the supposed onset of fascism in the United States like to claim that the Patriot Act is the instrument by which our rights and liberties is being curtailed. Putting aside the fact that many of the Patriot Act's critics haven't even carefully read the Act and its provisions, many of the arguments made against the Act are just plain wrong. Myth-busting articles and blog posts on the Internet setting the record straight regarding the Patriot Act -- like this one, for example -- are quite plentiful because there is a market for them thanks to blatant misreadings of the Patriot Act that are all too common in news and punditry circles. Many of the supposed totalitarian aspects of the Patriot Act were already in existence when the Act was passed, and as of July of this year, out of the nearly 1300 alleged abuses of the Patriot Act that were forwarded to the Inspector General of the Justice Department, the Inspector General found that none of those complaints had any merit whatsoever. (Surely, we will be told that the Inspector General is simply covering up the abuses of the crypto-fascist state, but there does come a point where such circular arguments are no longer worthy of any attention whatsoever.)

The supposed loss of civil liberties and the onset of fascism were key components of the argument made to elect John Kerry as President. Kerry himself spoke to this issue when he promised in his acceptance speech to the Democratic National Convention that he would "appoint an attorney general who will uphold the Constitution of the United States." Of course, anyone who has been paying attention to political rhetoric over the past four years knows that John Ashcroft is closely connected with the supposed rise of American fascism, and politically, it was quite convenient for Kerry to pose as the remedy to the fascist Ashcroftian annihilation of American civil liberties.

But when one compares the civil liberties voting records of Senator Kerry and former Senator Ashcroft, Ashcroft plainly comes out ahead as the more capable and ardent defender of civil liberties. And Ashcroft is not alone as the miscast Republican fascist. When the Clinton Justice Department was working on the development of "Carnivore" -- a cyber-surveillance tool -- it was former Republican congressman and House Majority Leader Dick Armey who campaigned against Carnivore as a threat against civil rights and civil liberties. Indeed, Armey pressed both Attorney General Janet Reno and Ashcroft on the issue of Carnivore -- strange behavior, to be sure, from the former leader of the House contingent of America's supposed fascist party. Strangely enough, those loudest in denouncing the incipient rise of American fascism ignored and ignore all of this.

Of course, it isn't just Americans who are claiming the onset of fascism in the United States. In Europe, comparisons between the Bush Administration and fascist elements like the Nazis have also been plentiful. This is peculiar because the state of civil liberties in Europe is far more parlous than it is in America, and if the state of civil liberties in America actually descended to the European level, warnings regarding the incipient rise of fascism might actually have some merit. In his recent Thanksgiving holiday blog post, law professor Orin Kerr gave thanks for the fact that we live in a country that respects civil liberties a great deal more than they are respected in Europe. His remarks are well taken, but I wonder why we haven't heard alarm bells ringing regarding the rise of European fascism from the same quarters that like to claim American fascism is a threat to be taken seriously.

None of this is to say that when it comes to fascism, "It Can't Happen Here." But those who make the claim that America is becoming a fascist state have an obligation to be responsible with the facts, lest others stop taking them seriously. Ironically enough, fascism has its best chance when those who line up to denounce it discredit themselves with one too many false alarms. The next time they sound the alarm, they may have reason to. But few people will be inclined to listen if those who make the claims have proven themselves to be untrustworthy demagogues in the past.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 03:48 pm
Nah, we're not doing anything facist at all, look the other way, stop crying wolf. Yeah right.

http://www.prospect.org/weblog/archives/2005/02/index.html#005449

Quote:
WAIVE GOODBYE. A few months back I worried about Congress developing a taste for legislation that strips federal courts of jurisdiction over any old subject. It's a common tactic on hot-button issues; liberals used it to safeguard the Reconstruction Acts after the Civil War and labor issues before the Supreme Court gave its blessing, while House Republicans have recently brought it out for show on the Pledge of Allegiance and same-sex marriage. But since when is it standard practice to slip such provisions into construction projects? Notwithstanding any other provision of law, the Secretary of Homeland Security shall have the authority to waive, and shall waive, all laws such Secretary, in such Secretary's sole discretion, determines necessary to ensure expeditious construction of the barriers and roads under this section. This is in Rep. James Sensenbrenner's Real ID Act, predicted to pass the House tomorrow. Its primary purpose is to introduce a national ID card; there are certainly good reasons to support that, but how can we reasonably debate it when the actual legislation indemnifies the Department of Homeland Security and its subcontractors from all laws (as the Congressional Research Service repeatedly emphasized (pdf) for anybody who wasn't paying attention)?
The current Republican leadership's distaste for U.S. law is getting more and more pronounced, most notably in the war on terrorism and now here as well. At the risk of sounding hyperbolic, just who did the Republican Party beat in its "accountability moment" last November -- John Kerry and the Democratic Party, or the Constitution and the rule of law?

--Jeffrey Dubner


So, the DHS will be exempt from ALL laws, and exempt from prosecution for pretty much whatever they do to ensure construction of barriers and roads.

That sound facist to you? Exemption from ALL laws? Why? Why would they do such a thing?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 03:56 pm
Quote:
Here ya go.

http://webster.commnet.edu/sensen/part2/nine/

Quote:
A run-on sentence contains two or more independent clauses with no connectors between them. If independent clauses are not separated into distinct sentences by a period, then they must be connected by a conjunction or by a semicolon. Eliminating run-on sentences from your writing will make your thoughts easier to follow and understand.


Emphasis is mine.

Cycloptichorn



Nope, my sentence is fine perhaps you are reading it wrong. I know the rules of english.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 04:02 pm
Quote:
Nope, my sentence is fine perhaps you are reading it wrong.


TRIPLE priceless! Learn to use commas.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 04:19 pm
OOO your talking about the comma after "Well" I thought u meant a misuse of the word "excuse".

Wow, you ARE a grammar Nazi. My god...
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 04:53 pm
Just giving you a hard time. Wink

Now, I'm really concerned about this passage. Really concerned. I'd really, really like someone to explain to me exactly what is meant by this:

Quote:


...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 07:44 pm
McGentrix:

Bullsh*t.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 07:52 pm
The immigration bill would allow Homeland Security to construct barriers along American borders and inside the United States. It would also give the Secretary the authority to ignore labor and environmental laws, as well as refuse compensation for property seized in the construction of such barriers.

The bill also denies immigrants habeas corpus rights and makes it harder for immigrants to achieve asylum. Senior aides in the House expect the bill to pass without significant amendments Thursday.
The organizations who have filed letters of protest with the committee include: the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU); American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee (ADC); American Federation of Labor- Congress of Industrial Organizations (AFL-CIO); American Friends Service Committee; American Immigration Lawyers Association (AILA); American Jewish Committee; Amnesty International USA; Anti-Defamation League; Arab-American Anti-Discrimination Committee; Asian American Legal Defense and Education Fund; Asian and Pacific Islander American Health Forum; Asian Law Caucus; Asian Pacific American Labor Alliance, AFL-CIO; Asian Pacific American Legal Center of Southern California; Bill of Rights Defense Committee; Catholic Charities USA; Center for Gender and Refugee Studies, Univ. of Calif., Hastings College of the Law; Center for Community Change; Center for National Security Studies; Episcopal Migration Ministries; Fair Immigration Reform Movement; Golden Vision Foundation; Harvard Immigration and Refugee Clinical Program, Harvard Law School; Heartland Alliance for Human Needs & Human Rights; Hebrew Immigrant Aid Society; Hmong National Development; Human Rights First; Illinois Coalition for Immigrant and Refugee Rights; Immigration Unit of Greater Boston Legal Services; Irish American Unity Conference; Jewish Community Action; Jewish Council for Public Affairs; Korean Alliance for Peace and Justice (KAPJ); Korean American Coalition; Kurdish Human Rights Watch, Inc.; Labor Council for Latin American Advancement; Latin American Legal Defense and Education Fund; Leadership Conference on Civil Rights; League of United Latin American Citizens; Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund; Midwest Immigrant & Human Rights Center; The Multiracial Activist; National Asian Pacific American Bar Association; National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium (NAPALC); National Asian Pacific American Women's Forum; National Association of Latino Elected and Appointed Officials Education Fund; National Coalition for Asian Pacific American Community Development; National Conference of State Legislatures (NCSL); National Council of La Raza; National Day Laborer Organizing Network; National Employment Law Project; National Federation of Filipino American Associations; National Immigrant Solidarity Network; National Immigration Forum; National Immigration Law Center; National Korean American Service & Education Consortium; Organization of Chinese Americans;

Peace Action; People for the American Way; Refugee Law Center; Rural Opportunities; Service Employees International Union; Sikh American Legal Defense and Education Fund; Sikh Coalition; South Asian American Leaders of Tomorrow; South Asian Network; Southeast Asia Resource Action Center; Tahirih Justice Center; United Nations High Commission for Refugees; Unitarian Universalist Association of Congregations; Unitarian Universalist Service Committee; UNITE HERE; U.S. Committee for Refugees and Immigrants (USCRI); Washington Lawyers' Committee for Civil Rights and Urban Affairs; Women's Commission for Refugee Women and Children; World Organization for Human Rights USA; World Relief; YKASEC-Empowering the Korean American Community; and Young Koreans United of USA.


...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 08:00 pm
edit: wrong thread

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 04:47 pm
The Real F-Word
When even the conservative true believers fear it, the rest of us have to.
http://www.memphisflyer.com/content.asp?ArticleID=6&ID=6896

The Brownshirting of America
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 07:03 pm
Gasp.

It's soooooooo impolite to call the Republican party fascists.

How dare y'all.
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 08:03 pm
Embarrassed

Oh, my. Where are my manners?
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Feb, 2005 08:22 pm
Bob Herbert is shrill:

Quote:
Maher Arar is a 34-year-old native of Syria who emigrated to Canada as a teenager. On Sept. 26, 2002, as he was returning from a family vacation in Tunisia, he was seized by American authorities at Kennedy Airport in New York, where he was in the process of changing planes.

Mr. Arar, a Canadian citizen, was not charged with a crime. But, as Jane Mayer tells us in a compelling and deeply disturbing article in the current issue of The New Yorker, he "was placed in handcuffs and leg irons by plainclothes officials and transferred to an executive jet."

In an instant, Mr. Arar was swept into an increasingly common nightmare, courtesy of the United States of America. The plane that took off with him from Kennedy "flew to Washington, continued to Portland, Maine, stopped in Rome, Italy, then landed in Amman, Jordan."

Any rights Mr. Arar might have thought he had, either as a Canadian citizen or a human being, had been left behind. At times during the trip, Mr. Arar heard the pilots and crew identify themselves in radio communications as members of "the Special Removal Unit." He was being taken, on the orders of the U.S. government, to Syria, where he would be tortured.

The title of Ms. Mayer's article is "Outsourcing Torture." It's a detailed account of the frightening and extremely secretive U.S. program known as "extraordinary rendition."

This is one of the great euphemisms of our time. Extraordinary rendition is the name that's been given to the policy of seizing individuals without even the semblance of due process and sending them off to be interrogated by regimes known to practice torture. In terms of bad behavior, it stands side by side with contract killings.


That damned liberal media again
0 Replies
 
 

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