1
   

America Fascist ??

 
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 10:37 am
squinney wrote:


1. If you look at the proposal as presented so far, the SS "reform" is not ownership and diverting funds to corporations (fund managers) is fascist.


The government does not run or control any of the corporations (fund managers.) That's capitalism, not fascism.

Quote:
2. Elimination of "waste" in funding of social programs while giving huge military increases is fascist.


Defending our nation is fascist?! Shocked

We wouldn't need to bolster defense spending had Clinton not weakened our military so much. Also, it's a 5% increase from the previous budget in defense spending and only a 1% decrease in funding of selected social programs that have been deemed failures.

Quote:
3. Demanding that other nations live up to treaties we ourselves ignore, rewrite to suit current philosophy or refuse to sign is not just hypocritical, it is facist.


No, that's self-interest. Our government's #1 responsibility is serving the best interests of the American people.

Quote:
4. Reducing taxes on the middle class is facist. Not only does fascism require a class system, but the tax reform to which you refer actually benefited the rich to a much greater extent than anyone else and that is extremely fascist.


Before Bush's tax cuts, those making more than $140,000 were paying 52% of the taxes in the US. Now they are paying 54%. How has that benefitted the rich to a much greater extent?

Quote:
5. Showing pride for your country is not fascist? There's a difference between pride and what is actually taking place. What's happening with the "With us or against us" being applied to Americans, and those not supporting Bush and Co being labeled terrorists? Surely you haven't already forgotten the Republican rally cries of liberals/ Dems being responsible for the death of soldiers because we weren't waving our flags fast enough!


So, a small portion of the right wing now represents the entire nation?

<shrugs>

I don't think you know what fascism really is.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 10:42 am
Rather than turning fascist, I tend to think of the US as turning theocratic. In a letter to the NY Times responding to an earlier article on how teachers are being intimidated from teaching anything about evolution, the writer suggested that we have our brand of a Taliban setting the rules now.

Think about it...
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 10:53 am
Agreed, D'Art. But, I think the Religious Right is being used in this case just as a unifier for the party in general It's a huge base, and one that party leaders knew would come through for them.

Today another teacher is being harassed and the Governor is calling for him to be fired for stating his views on why 9/11 happened.

If that's not fascist, what is it?
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 11:15 am
Well, the two may not be mutually exclusive, squinney. After all, the Taliban wanted complete control of the culture and government. It's certainly totalitarian.

I heard Bill Mahar (I may be misspelling his name) on "Fresh Air" last night. He mentioned how the conservatives not only won the election, they now demand that the left acknowledge how wrong they were. It's not enough to run the country, they have to destroy the opposition.

So, yeah, I would say it is fascistic...
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 11:27 am
Speaking of destroying the opposition:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid hit back at the Republican Party on Monday for targeting him with an attack reminiscent of one used to help oust his predecessor, Tom Daschle. Standing in the Republican-led Senate, Reid called on President Bush personally to repudiate and pull "a hit piece" against him by the Republican National Committee.

"What they want to do is just like (what) they did to Daschle," Reid said.

Republicans last year effectively branded Daschle, a South Dakota Democrat, as a "chief obstructionist" to Bush's agenda on Capitol Hill and persuaded his constituents to vote him out of office...

...Reid, of Nevada, noted Bush has called for bipartisanship and said the president telephoned him after last year's election and said he wanted to "get along."

"Is President Bush a man of his word (or) is what he is telling the American people just a charade?" Reid asked.

An RNC spokeswoman said a "research document" about Reid that the Senate Democrat had denounced would be distributed to about a million people, including donors, party activists and reporters. Released on late Monday, hours after Reid spoke, the document looked somewhat like a newspaper, emblazoned with the words, "Reid all about it. All the facts you need to know."


"It introduces the public to the real Harry Reid," RNC spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt said in a telephone interview. "He can try to paint himself as a centrist, but his votes to block tax reform and tort reform and his opposition to strengthen Social Security prove otherwise."


"We intend to make clear that Reid is an obstructionist who is out of the mainstream and we will hold him accountable as the Senate leader of the party of 'no,"' Schmitt said.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050208/pl_nm/politics_reid_dc_2

I believe that falls under...

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people's attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions.relentless propaganda and disinformationbold is mine for emphasis.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 11:38 am
Apparently, you are still upset that your socialist party was defeated and your ideals are dismissed by the majority.

1. GW plan (silly as it is) for Private Accoutns is OWNERSHIP. Sice one can transfer the balance to heirs at death is clearly a form of ownership. I realize you would rather stay with the socialist program currently is a stateof failure.

2. Eliminateion of waste us smart. Do you throw your money out the window? Then why should the govt waste my tax dollars. increasing military budget is necessary to protect this nation. I realize you would like to see higher taxes.

3. If the UN can not govern the treaties they negotiate, then either eliminate the UN.

4. reducing taxes on the middle (working) class is good for economic growth as history has shown. I realize in your socialist utpoia there would be no classes, no incentives and no growth. See USSR and China as examples.

5. I will always questions the govts motives yet still proud to be in a country that allows me that freedom. I realize in your socialist utopia, you would have no voice because the govt becomes your voice.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 11:40 am
squinney wrote:
Speaking of destroying the opposition:

Quote:
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Senate Democratic leader Harry Reid hit back at the Republican Party on Monday for targeting him with an attack reminiscent of one used to help oust his predecessor, Tom Daschle. Standing in the Republican-led Senate, Reid called on President Bush personally to repudiate and pull "a hit piece" against him by the Republican National Committee.

"What they want to do is just like (what) they did to Daschle," Reid said.

Republicans last year effectively branded Daschle, a South Dakota Democrat, as a "chief obstructionist" to Bush's agenda on Capitol Hill and persuaded his constituents to vote him out of office...

...Reid, of Nevada, noted Bush has called for bipartisanship and said the president telephoned him after last year's election and said he wanted to "get along."

"Is President Bush a man of his word (or) is what he is telling the American people just a charade?" Reid asked.

An RNC spokeswoman said a "research document" about Reid that the Senate Democrat had denounced would be distributed to about a million people, including donors, party activists and reporters. Released on late Monday, hours after Reid spoke, the document looked somewhat like a newspaper, emblazoned with the words, "Reid all about it. All the facts you need to know."


"It introduces the public to the real Harry Reid," RNC spokeswoman Tracey Schmitt said in a telephone interview. "He can try to paint himself as a centrist, but his votes to block tax reform and tort reform and his opposition to strengthen Social Security prove otherwise."


"We intend to make clear that Reid is an obstructionist who is out of the mainstream and we will hold him accountable as the Senate leader of the party of 'no,"' Schmitt said.


http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20050208/pl_nm/politics_reid_dc_2

I believe that falls under...

3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause. The most significant common thread among these regimes was the use of scapegoating as a means to divert the people's attention from other problems, to shift blame for failures, and to channel frustration in controlled directions.relentless propaganda and disinformationbold is mine for emphasis.


Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
Brand X
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 11:43 am
You can find similarities in just about anything that relate to a lot of other things.

While many unsavory actions happen in politics I think America is far from being a fascist country.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 12:01 pm
woiyo: You call the Democrats socialists. Do you really believe that, or is what you're saying payback for the theme of this thread?

I wouldn't call all Republicans fascists or a version of the Taliban, but some of them certainly share characteristics with those groups. What is socialistic about John Kerry? Do you even understand what the word means, or is just something to use as an insult?
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 01:32 pm
D'artagnan wrote:
woiyo: You call the Democrats socialists. Do you really believe that, or is what you're saying payback for the theme of this thread?

I wouldn't call all Republicans fascists or a version of the Taliban, but some of them certainly share characteristics with those groups. What is socialistic about John Kerry? Do you even understand what the word means, or is just something to use as an insult?


If you actually read the post, I was calling Squinney a Socialist.

John Kerry has socialistic tendencies as he continually calls for higher taxes and more spending on social welfare progrms, for example.
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 01:34 pm
Actually, I did read your post. You speak of Squinney's "socialist party." What am I misconstruing about your meaning there?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 01:35 pm
Woiyo Wrote:

Quote:
3. If the UN can not govern the treaties they negotiate, then either eliminate the UN.


Yeah, we should take our advice on policy formation from someone who would type a sentence like this. You've explained your position quite well, thanks very much.

Republican: the party of the grammar-challenged everywhere! I mean, look at the leader...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 01:40 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Woiyo Wrote:

Quote:
3. If the UN can not govern the treaties they negotiate, then either eliminate the UN.


Yeah, we should take our advice on policy formation from someone who would type a sentence like this. You've explained your position quite well, thanks very much.

Republican: the party of the grammar-challenged everywhere! I mean, look at the leader...

Cycloptichorn


Who said I was a republican? Grammer challenged, maybe, but a republican...no. Nice try however!
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:18 pm
You can roll your eyes all you like, McG, but that doesn't make it untrue.

The scapegoating, shifting of blame, diverting of attention, and spreading of misinformation and propoganda started immediately with blaming the recession on Clinton, followed by the California Energy Crisis being blamed on Grey Davis, rather than the antics of Kenny Boy, and resulting in Arnolds "election." That was followed by 9/11 which was initially blamed on Clinton and the evil Liberals. (Various reasons I won't go into here unless you've totally lost your memory)

Then there was the terrorists, outside forces we had to fear and could only be protected from if we passed the Patriot Act and kept Bush in charge while we watched, trembling, as the colors changed on our screen. But, that wasn't enough. We couldn't find Osama what's his face. You know, that guy Bush really doesn't think about that much anymore. So, Saddam became the scapegoat / evil guy, for many reasons, but one of which could easily be identified as being to divert attention and get people to stop asking about Osama, 'cause we couldn't find him dead or alive. You know why, right? Because he's hiding!

Need I mention soldiers taking the fall for torture? Swft Boat Vets spreading misinformation? Texas GOP using the Federal government to hunt down Dem legislators? Propoganda "journalists" spreading false and distorted information about Daschle and other Democrats? PAYING journalists with our tax dollars to promote various policy proposals?

The list goes on, but I'm sure you get the idea.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:29 pm
So, you are basically saying that the current administration is just as bad as the prior administration which was just as bad as the prior administration which was just as bad as the prior administration, etc...

Everything you say here can be said about the Clinton administration, the first bush administration, the Reagan administration, etc...

It's too bad we can't live in the rosey socialist Utopia the liberal left has dreamed up for itself. Sounds like a nice place. Instead, we will have to continue living in the real world where politics as usual is the status quo.

It's still not fascism.
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:42 pm
Quote:
Who said I was a republican? Grammer challenged, maybe, but a republican...no. Nice try however!


I love how they assume that if you argue against them you are republican.

Quote:
Yeah, we should take our advice on policy formation from someone who would type a sentence like this. You've explained your position quite well, thanks very much.

Republican: the party of the grammar-challenged everywhere! I mean, look at the leader...


Well excuse sir Grammar Nazi.

Quote:
Actually, I did read your post. You speak of Squinney's "socialist party." What am I misconstruing about your meaning there?


Well if there's a Nazi party in America I assume there will be a Socialist/worker's union party too. Just a guess I don't get too worried about splinter parties.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:48 pm
Well excuse sir Grammar Nazi.

Priceless!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
El-Diablo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:51 pm
Quote:
Well excuse sir Grammar Nazi.

Priceless!

Cycloptichorn


Ya I try.:wink: Smile

Unless you are implying that my sentence was grammatically incorrect which it is not.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:55 pm
Quote:
Unless you are implying that my sentence was grammatically incorrect which it is not.


Double priceless!

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 9 Feb, 2005 02:58 pm
Here ya go.

http://webster.commnet.edu/sensen/part2/nine/

Quote:
A run-on sentence contains two or more independent clauses with no connectors between them. If independent clauses are not separated into distinct sentences by a period, then they must be connected by a conjunction or by a semicolon. Eliminating run-on sentences from your writing will make your thoughts easier to follow and understand.


Emphasis is mine.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
 

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