snood wrote:Forgive me, but by what standard are you people judging this man's words? He is a respected leader in the military, with a great reputation with peers and subordinates. He shot off his mouth - I've done that myself. He got reprimanded to pick his words better - would you have him publicly flogged, or just court martialed?
I think you need to get a little real.
If he can't copmport himself in a matter befitting his position, and reflecting credit on the US military, then he needs to find some other work. His comments just give ammunition to the peaceniks.
OCCOM BILL wrote:I wonder if these folks would condemn a man for saying he enjoys cutting parts off of people because he knows they deserve it and it's good to take pride in and get some satisfaction out of one's work?
Surely their are surgeons out there that feel this way. Personally, I can't understand how they can do that day in and day out without getting sick which is why I wouldn't choose that line of work for me... but I remain grateful that others do.
I work with surgeons, and what you're saying makes no sense. Surgeons cut parts off people because they know the patients deserve it? What the hell does that mean?
D'artagnan wrote:OCCOM BILL wrote:I wonder if these folks would condemn a man for saying he enjoys cutting parts off of people because he knows they deserve it and it's good to take pride in and get some satisfaction out of one's work?
Surely their are surgeons out there that feel this way. Personally, I can't understand how they can do that day in and day out without getting sick which is why I wouldn't choose that line of work for me... but I remain grateful that others do.
I work with surgeons, and what you're saying makes no sense. Surgeons cut parts off people because they know the patients deserve it? What the hell does that mean?
What the hell do you think it means? If you weren't being deliberately obtuse you couldn't ask such a question. Does anyone deserve a cancerous tumor?
No. Are you implying that surgeons believe they do?
No, I said the opposite in plain English. Are you starting to see the inherent foolishness in getting too indignant over choice of verbiage yet?
Surely most surgeon enjoy slicing people, it is interesting. But they do so to save people, not to kill them.
Anyway, I really don't care what the general thinks, but I think he really should be demoted for what he said. He can think what he wants in private. This will only hurt the U.S. army.
If I really thought those who are most up in arms over this really gave a **** about the reputation of the Army, we could have a real heartwarming discussion about that.
i am not up in arms - i honestly do not care much. i just have an opinion of what the army should do, from and organizational perspective. i don't even have to care about the army to have an opinion about a leader that says stupid things. has nothing to do with the army - from my perspective.
That guy was in the Marines, right? Pardon my saying so, but that about explains it, doesn't it?
Dag, saving people is the surgeon's job. On some days, killing people is that General's job. However inappropriate the man's choice of word's for "I take pride in my work" may have been, a demotion for it or worse as others have suggested is ridiculous. I think certain surgeons have selected the most disgusting (to me) job possible. I have little doubt that some of their verbiage would literally turn my stomach... but that doesn't mean I should respect them any less for taking pride in it... or seek to have them fired if they refer to it some un-PC way because someone else takes offense to the verbiage. The appropriate action has already been taken.
snood wrote:If I really thought those who are most up in arms over this really gave a **** about the reputation of the Army, we could have a real heartwarming discussion about that.
Well, I certainly care about the reputation of the US military. It is holding back the darkness all over the world, and a general without the sense to watch his mouth should be demoted and moved to a job where he can't do much harm.
You are right, some surgeons do say disgustings things and they do talk about slicing and chopping - in a pub amongst themselves. not in a press conference. all i think is that is was stupid, that's where my interest ends. let the army do what they think is best for them, i don't care. i just don't see why he needs defending for what he said.
<shrug>
brandon, this army would have to demote many people if it started caring about its image too much.
well, there were many incidents just in the past year that were not dealt with all the way to the top, or were not viewed as dealt with fairly. so, the general is a small and minor fish compared to the rest of the stuff that is problematic for the army right now. not that that should be unimportant, of course, but perhaps army views it differently.
dagmaraka wrote:well, there were many incidents just in the past year that were not dealt with all the way to the top, or were not viewed as dealt with fairly. so, the general is a small and minor fish compared to the rest of the stuff that is problematic for the army right now. not that that should be unimportant, of course, but perhaps army views it differently.
The soldiers who mistreated prisoners at Abu Ghraib are being dealt with harshly, as they should be. Things do not always go to the top. There were thousand of court marshalls unde Bill Clinton and none of them resulted in prosecution of him or his staff. It should also be noted that the people we are fighting in Iraq generally kill the innocent on purpose, which is worse than most of what happened at Abu Gharaib. And, of course, those foreign armies are pure as a new snowfall. Be specific. What evidence do you have that some "incident" related to the American military did not result in someone
guilty being prosecuted?
I am not speaking about any particular cases, i am not even accusing anyone of anything. I am talking about perceptions, that army had a few incidents in the past year that part of the public in the U.S. and part of the public in the world viewed as not dealt with properly, that's all. No need to jump at me immediately, for I really do not care that much either way. i don't have any strong advice for the army, just my humble opinion about the general's behavior. howgh.
