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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 06:22 pm
Humans are caused by global warming to procreate humans that cause global warming.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 06:37 pm
That is correct. It's all that steamy sensuality in the tropics.

What we need is weather that freezes the balls off a pawnbroker's monkey. That'll slow 'em down. (Unless they get air conditioning of course).
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sat 1 Dec, 2007 06:46 pm
Global warming is bringing slinky, sensuous Senoritas to northern latitudes. Like in Baywatch.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:17 am
Quote:
How Africa's desert sun can bring Europe power

A £5bn solar power plan, backed by a Jordanian prince, could provide the EU with a sixth of its electricity needs - and cut carbon emissions


Robin McKie, science editor
The Observer
Sunday December 2 2007

Europe is considering plans to spend more than £5bn on a string of giant solar power stations along the Mediterranean desert shores of northern Africa and the Middle East.

More than a hundred of the generators, each fitted with thousands of huge mirrors, would generate electricity to be transmitted by undersea cable to Europe and then distributed across the continent to European Union member nations, including Britain.

Billions of watts of power could be generated this way, enough to provide Europe with a sixth of its electricity needs and to allow it to make significant cuts in its carbon emissions. At the same time, the stations would be used as desalination plants to provide desert countries with desperately needed supplies of fresh water.

Last week Prince Hassan bin Talal of Jordan presented details of the scheme - named Desertec - to the European Parliament. 'Countries with deserts, countries with high energy demand, and countries with technology competence must co-operate,' he told MEPs.

The project has been developed by the Trans-Mediterranean Renewable Energy Corporation and is supported by engineers and politicians in Europe as well as Morocco, Algeria, Libya, Jordan and other nations in the Middle East and Africa.

Europe would provide initial funds for developing the solar technology that will be needed to run plants as well as money for constructing prototype stations. After that, banks and financial institutions, as well as national governments, would take over the construction programme, which could cost more than £200bn over the next 30 years.

'We don't make enough use of deserts,' said physicist Gerhard Knies, co-founder of the scheme. 'The sun beats down on them mercilessly during the day and heats the ground to tremendous temperatures. Then at night that heat is radiated back into the atmosphere. In other words, it is completely wasted. We need to stop that waste and exploit the vast amounts of energy that the sun beams down to us.'

Scientists estimate that sunlight could provide 10,000 times the amount of energy needed to fulfil humanity's current energy needs. Transforming that solar radiation into a form to be exploited by humanity is difficult, however.

One solution proposed by the scheme's engineers is to use large areas of land on which to construct their solar plants. In Europe, land is costly. But in nations such as Morocco, Algeria, and Libya it is cheap, mainly because they are scorched by the sun. The project aims to exploit that cheap land by use of a technique known as 'concentrating solar power'.

A CSP station consists of banks of several hundred giant mirrors that cover large areas of land, around a square kilometre. Each mirror's position can be carefully controlled to focus the sun's rays onto a central metal pillar that is filled with water. Prototype stations using this technique have already been tested in Spain and Algeria.

Once the sun's rays are focused on the pillar, temperatures inside start to soar to 800C. The water inside the pillar is vaporised into superhot steam which is channelled off and used to drive turbines which in turn generate electricity. 'It is proven technology,' added Knies. 'We have shown it works in our test plants.'

Only small stations have been tested, but soon plants capable of generating 100 megawatts of power could be built, enough to provide the needs of a town. The Desertec project envisages a ring of a thousand of these stations being built along the coast of northern Africa and round into the Mediterranean coast of the Middle East. In this way up to 100 billion watts of power could be generated: two thirds of it would be kept for local needs, the rest - around 30 billion watts - would be exported to Europe.

An idea of how much power this represents is revealed through Britain's electricity generating capacity, which totals 12 billion watts.

[... ... ... full rport see link above]


http://i19.tinypic.com/6u8m98k.jpg
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 03:06 am
So Africa and the Middle East will continue to be the battery of the world for the generation.

Joe(no pun intended)Nation
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 04:46 am
Why are they spaced out like that?
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Francis
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 04:52 am
Joe Nation wrote:
So Africa and the Middle East will continue to be the battery of the world for the generation.

Joe(no pun intended)Nation


And if you invade their countries for solar energy, you'll be guilty of battery assault...
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 06:38 am
I shall pepper you with retorts for that assault remark, but later, right now I am trying to think of an answer for Spendius' question:

Quote:
Why are they spaced out like that?


At first, I thought he was referring to me and Lola and Bernie, but now I see he has, perhaps for the very first time on this forum, asked a cogent, briefly stated, question.

Quote:
Why are they spaced out like that?


Let's ask Old Man Nation. Joe?

Joe(to make little boys ask questions)Nation
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 06:54 am
It's a convenient word is "perhaps". It allows one to imagine that others will think one has said something of significance when one hasn't.

Perhaps Joe has perceived that my question is one he can't answer rather than one of those he can but daren't.
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Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 06:59 am
I think you are making a bit too much of a newspaper graphic. Do you really think that that little map represents any actual locations?

Joe(Quick! Call that Real Estate guy in Yemen!!!)Nation
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maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 07:14 am
spendius wrote:
Why are they spaced out like that?


Well one reason I'm sure is so that not all the power plants are in just one country (political reasons, I'm sure).

2nd, I'd guess that weather would be taken into account (if it's storming in some of those areas you don't want 1/5 of your power grid shut down) better to spread it out and keep your losses smaller.

3rd, I would want to take advantage of the earth's rotation (different time zones) to get power for a longer total period of the day.


But these are guesses, I don't know.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 07:39 am
Joe wrote-

Quote:
Do you really think that that little map represents any actual locations


I didn't actually. It looks like something conjured up on a beer mat late on in the pub by one of those "putting the earth right from a bar stool" merchants.

If it works the oil price will go into free fall because those who have it will think that this is their last chance to flog it. We could wreck the ME, and other places, simply by banning unofficial travel or we can boost their economy so they can make WMDs by encouraging unofficial travel.

If, as Mr Bush said in the State of the Union speech, we are addicted to oil then the suppliers are drug barons.

If the sun's energy is captured by these plants then it won't be reflected back into space from the deserts as happens now and that is bound to cause GW.

What would prevent us from using this extra source of energy so that even more people could have even more fun? Why is it assumed it would cut carbon emissions?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:04 pm
From Wikipedia-

Quote:
"Parkinson's Law" could be generalized further still as: "The demand upon a resource always expands to match the supply of the resource." An extension is often added to this, stating that "the reverse is not true." This generalization has become very similar to the economic law of cost and demand; that the lower the cost of a service or commodity, the greater the quantity demanded.


Supply more juice and we'll find ways to use it.

One can only assume that The Observer's science editor has never heard of Parkinson's Law or that he forgot about it in the service of writing his esteemed column.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:06 pm
spendius wrote:
One can only assume that The Observer's science editor has never heard of Parkinson's Law or that he forgot about it in the service of writing his esteemed column.


Why? Because The Observer - like numerous other media in dozen countries reported about this project by Trans-Mediterranean Renewable Energy Corporation?
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:29 pm
I don't happen to have an idolatrous relationship to media Walt.

I think they are a bunch of freeloading tosspots who recruit nepotistically and tell lies as easily as I breathe.

As Lord Thompson said over 50 years ago- it's a licence to print money.

Nobody who knows Parkinson's Laws could possibly have written that guff and anybody who doesn't shouldn't be a science editor of an important newspaper.

Although I'll admit it is possible that the writer just assumed his readers hadn't heard of it and that he could pen his tripe without the dummies noticing and pop off for lunch at the Ritz. (4 hours of a job as some two-bit politician greases him for a nice mention- possibly an investor in TMREC).

Renewable energy my arse. South Sea bubble more like.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:35 pm
From The Observer's Science Editor.

Quote:
Billions of watts of power could be generated this way, enough to provide Europe with a sixth of its electricity needs and to allow it to make significant cuts in its carbon emissions. At the same time, the stations would be used as desalination plants to provide desert countries with desperately needed supplies of fresh water.


That would put a lot of our farmers out of business and there would be massive budget surpluses in those countries with which to buy in equipment and expertise to manufacture all sorts of Wierd Monstrosity Devices.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 01:46 pm
spendius wrote:
I don't happen to have an idolatrous relationship to media Walt.


This has nothing to do with a relation to any media nor with misspelling my name: it's just and only a report (based on a press release) about plans by a certain corporation.
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spendius
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 05:37 pm
Thanks Walter. That's easy enough to understand.

Reports (based on press releases) about plans by certain corporations are easy to follow. Just think personal greed. Hunting in packs.

It was a goal you know. The ball did cross the line. It's a waste of time arguing about it. I've seen it in slow-mo and the linesman was right.
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ican711nm
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 08:56 pm
The old Shaggy Dog story:
Judge A, "That dog is shaggy;"
Judge B, "That dog is really shaggy;"
Judge C, "That dog is the shaggiest dog I have ever seen;"
Judge D. "That dog ain't shaggy."

The modern version:
Scientist A, "Humans are warming the earth;"
Scientist B, "Humans are really warming the earth;"
Scientist C, "Humans are warming the earth like its never been warmed before;"
Scientist D. "Humans ain't warming the earth."
0 Replies
 
Diest TKO
 
  1  
Reply Sun 2 Dec, 2007 09:03 pm
Seems that Judge D should learn about canines, and Scientist D should revisit the evidence.

T
K
O
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