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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 02:28 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Cyclops Post 1311579
Quote:
Quote:
My above statement is presented as opinion. You are free to disagree with it; if I wanted to state it as a categorical fact, I would have provided supporting evidence, which I didn't care to do.



And this is fairly good documentation, absent several other of his personally directed slurs, that illustrates why I adopted my personal policy of not feeding, the trolls, arguing with idiots, or engaging in exercises of futility.

And man did I get a lot of additional ammunition to use in the last several pages should it be necessary to use them. Smile

(P.S. In the context in which I used it, 'tact' is the correct word.)


Laughing No, it isn't the correct word. You don't even know simple english.

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/tact.html

http://www.mtannoyances.com/?p=8

http://www.agriculture.purdue.edu/agcomm/ontarget/archive/ot4_99.html

http://www.m-w.com/dictionary/tact

Google Definitions

Yet another factual error by you, Fox, one in which you didn't even bother to do an ounce of research.

And,

Quote:

And man did I get a lot of additional ammunition to use in the last several pages should it be necessary to use them. Smile


'Use them' against who? For what? As if you could provide some sort of proof, some argument that would elevate your status in other poster's minds and reduce mine. You just don't understand that you've dug yourself such a hole over the years, it doesn't even matter what you say anymore. Once again, you cannot provide any sort of logical defense for your behavior, but instead focus on attack. Sad, really...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 02:29 pm
And cyclops, you need further correction concerning my posts about mass transit. I asserted that buses are no more efficient in my example, which is Denver, than if everyone drove a car achieving 29.7 mpg., and because of riding a bus further than one would if you drove directly to your destination, the figure is probably lower, possibly much lower than 29.7. Never did I say that all cars currently average 29.7, as Parados I think implies.

My other assertion that I keep repeating is that ones choice of cars is only one energy choice that one makes. Other choices include how far you go to work, so that driving a gas guzzler a short distance to work is more economical than appearing to be energy concious and riding mass transit for an hour to work.

I fail to see why basic common sense needs to be attacked by people here on this forum, when the facts are so obvious surrounding these issues. The only conclusion I can come up with is that built in bias and previous indoctrination is so hard to let go of. The built in bias by libs is that mass transit is good and suvs are always bad. And hydrogen sounds so good and fossil fuels are evil.

I dug up another bit of trivia about the energy consumption, and that concerns jetsetters. Apparently, airline travel consumes the equivalent of 48 mpg per passenger, so if you fly around the world a few times, as some celebrities do, their energy consumption really begins to pile up big time, because of the great distances traveled in short amounts of time.

http://www.tufts.edu/tie/tci/airtravel.htm
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 02:59 pm
Well there is certainly a hole dug here, Okie, but you aren't in it Smile

(I can't wait until Cyclop gives me a good opportunity to use his last post too. Smile)
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 03:01 pm
So, you won't admit that you were factually wrong about the 'tact-tack' mis-statement?

Really?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 03:35 pm
Nope. Using my own understanding of the word, my own Merriam-Webster dictionary, and the links you provided, "tact" is the correct word in the context in which I used it. And that's putting it in "simple English".
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 03:50 pm
What a ridiculous complaint, tact or tack. cyclops, you are really scraping the bottom to try to find something on somebody. Foxfyre, use of the word, tact, is accurate, as the use of the word, tack, might have also been permissable. I have found the word, tack, to indicate direction or angle of one's approach. Tact is the base of the word, tactic, which also implies mode of argument, although perhaps it is used most often to explain avoidance of irritation or whatever, but I don't see much of a big deal about which word is used. I don't think either one is wrong.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 03:57 pm
By the way, nobody has offered anything at all concerning my question about how much solar energy is converted to kinetic energy and thus not exhibited as heat energy in the atmosphere, and what possible effect this may have on global temperatures. Nobody even said it was a stupid question, which surprised me.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:03 pm
Foxfyre wrote:
Nope. Using my own understanding of the word, my own Merriam-Webster dictionary, and the links you provided, "tact" is the correct word in the context in which I used it. And that's putting it in "simple English".


You are being willfully ignorant. These are both from MW.com, which I trust more than your 'understanding' of the word.

Quote:
Main Entry: tact
Pronunciation: 'takt
Function: noun
Etymology: French, sense of touch, from Latin tactus, from tangere to touch -- more at TANGENT
1 : sensitive mental or aesthetic perception <converted>
2 : a keen sense of what to do or say in order to maintain good relations with others or avoid offense


Tact is a description of behavior.

Quote:
Main Entry: 1tack
Pronunciation: 'tak
Function: verb
Etymology: Middle English takken, from tak
transitive verb
1 : ATTACH; especially : to fasten or affix with tacks
2 : to join in a slight or hasty manner
3 a : to add as a supplement b : to add (a rider) to a parliamentary bill
4 : to change the direction of (a sailing ship) when sailing close-hauled by turning the bow to the wind and shifting the sails so as to fall off on the other side at about the same angle as before
intransitive verb
1 a : to tack a sailing ship b of a ship : to change to an opposite tack by turning the bow to the wind c : to follow a course against the wind by a series of tacks
2 a : to follow a zigzag course b : to modify one's policy or attitude abruptly
- tackĀ·er noun


or

Quote:
Main Entry: 2tack
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English tak fastener, rope tying down the windward corner of a sail, from Middle French (Norman dialect) taque; akin to Middle Dutch tac sharp point
1 : a small short sharp-pointed nail usually having a broad flat head
2 a : the direction of a ship with respect to the trim of her sails <starboard> b : the run of a sailing ship on one tack c : a change when close-hauled from the starboard to the port tack or vice versa d : a zigzag movement on land e : a course or method of action; especially : one sharply divergent from that previously followed
3 : any of various usually temporary stitches
4 : the lower forward corner of a fore-and-aft sail
5 : a sticky or adhesive quality or condition


Tack is an indication of a change in direction.

The original sentence:

Quote:
In fact I think I'll copy the whole discussion as it might come in handy if he continues on this tact.


Clearly you meant to say 'tack and not 'tact.' I don't see how you could possibly claim that you used the word correctly. Every piece of evidence available shows that you were incorrect, and moreso, that it is a common misconception.

This is a major problem of yours, and really, I'm glad you brought it up again: you are completely unable to admit when you are wrong. At least to those who have the temerity to call you out on it.

Why don't you try showing some evidence that you are using the word correctly? You cannot do so.

Okie,
I don't need to scrape to find anything on Fox. Others have done a far better job than I of pointing out how hollow and empty her rhetoric is, how unintelligent the arguments she advances are, how obstinate she is when challenged on her errors. I think the inability to admit even simple, childish mistakes[/i] is a sign of greater mental problems, and I don't hesitate to point them out when I see them.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:04 pm
Keep it up Cyclop. You're just giving me more and more ammunition to use. Smile
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:06 pm
For what? You don't have a use for it. Anything that you post, will only go further to prove my point: that you are willing to argue far beyond the realms of logic and reason in order to convince yourself/others that you are correct.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:11 pm
okie wrote:
By the way, nobody has offered anything at all concerning my question about how much solar energy is converted to kinetic energy and thus not exhibited as heat energy in the atmosphere, and what possible effect this may have on global temperatures. Nobody even said it was a stupid question, which surprised me.


Now that I'm done with that other foolishness of arguing with those incapable of arguing, on to the topic.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'converted to kinetic energy.' Sorry if this has already been answered, but how is the solar energy converted?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:35 pm
Cyclops, yes, I could be asking a stupid question, as this question germinated in my mind, and I've never seen anything on this. Perhaps it is a non-issue or explained away for some reason.

The reason I thought of this is the fact that windmills convert wind to electricity, and I read that wind is really the product of solar energy that has been converted to kinetic energy by heating and cooling in the atmosphere. So, this caused me to wonder how much solar energy is converted to kinetic energy in the form of air movement (wind), ocean currents, and even possibly earth or crustal movements, which might end up not being expressed as heat in the atmosphere? The thought also occurs to me that some of this energy may be reconverted into heat, I don't know. Its been a long time since college. This question has to do with the first law of thermodynamics wherein energy is not destroyed, but can be converted or stored in one form or another, which may be heat for most of the solar energy recieved, but perhaps not all?

Laugh if you wish, cyclops, but if someone has an answer, I am interested.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 04:50 pm
I wouldn't laugh, it's a good question that I don't know the answer to.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:06 pm
okie wrote:
Its a false argument, Parados, which yours is.

Did I mistate the argument? I don't think so. You quoted someone saying that grid electricity is dirty to produce hydrogen. I pointed out that grid electricity is NOT the only way to get electricity.

Your argument that we don't presently get most of our grid electricity from green sources is a red herring. There is no requirement that we use grid electricity. One could easily build a hydrogen producing plant today using electrolisis that uses nothing but green energy. We have wind farms that produce electricity. It would be very efficient to build a hydrogen electrolisis plant in the middle of a wind farm. All the electricity would be green and the excess would be sold.

The problem isn't that creating the hydrogen would be dirty. The problem is no infrastructure to distribute the hydrogen.
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 06:44 pm
Fox,

While tact might work in the sentence as you used it, it doesn't make much sense in the context of how you used it.

Quote:
In fact I think I'll copy the whole discussion as it might come in handy if he continues on this tact....

And this is fairly good documentation, absent several other of his personally directed slurs, that illustrates why I adopted my personal policy of not feeding, the trolls, arguing with idiots, or engaging in exercises of futility.


The meaning would be 'I'll copy the discussion if he continues using his keen sense of not giving offense.' Which directly contradicts your statement about not feeding trolls or arguing with idiots. Obviously, Cyc has given offense based on your later statements.

Certainly one wouldn't continue "on this tact". They would continue "with tact". Everything points to you misusing the word Fox.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:09 pm
parados wrote:
Fox,

While tact might work in the sentence as you used it, it doesn't make much sense in the context of how you used it.

Quote:
In fact I think I'll copy the whole discussion as it might come in handy if he continues on this tact....

And this is fairly good documentation, absent several other of his personally directed slurs, that illustrates why I adopted my personal policy of not feeding, the trolls, arguing with idiots, or engaging in exercises of futility.


The meaning would be 'I'll copy the discussion if he continues using his keen sense of not giving offense.' Which directly contradicts your statement about not feeding trolls or arguing with idiots. Obviously, Cyc has given offense based on your later statements.

Certainly one wouldn't continue "on this tact". They would continue "with tact". Everything points to you misusing the word Fox.


Well admittedly there are other words that I could have used. But in American vernacular one frequently uses the term that is an absurd opposite to emphasize something that is ridiculous or just plain wrong.

Example: Blatham using the "Compassionate Torturers Handbook" to take a poke at me, or somebody quoting something absolutely assinine and commenting "absolutely brilliant!" to emphasize that it was anything but. Or referring to somebody as "learned, astute, wise, etc." when you are communicating that the person is anything but.

And given a member's propensity for rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, and inappropriate remarks along with an enormous double standard utilized almost every time he takes up a new subject, I thought 'tact' to be a much better term than the really rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, but quite appropriate terms that I could have used.

In other words, I tried to be as tactful as possible under the circumstances.

Get it?

Probably not, but that's the way it is.

Tack, on the other hand, would have in no way communicated what I was communicating.

I will concede that I may not have communicated as clearly as I would have liked if those who do not share the member's dislike of me didn't get it either.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 25 Sep, 2006 07:29 pm
parados wrote:
okie wrote:
Its a false argument, Parados, which yours is.

Did I mistate the argument? I don't think so. You quoted someone saying that grid electricity is dirty to produce hydrogen. I pointed out that grid electricity is NOT the only way to get electricity.

Your argument that we don't presently get most of our grid electricity from green sources is a red herring. There is no requirement that we use grid electricity. One could easily build a hydrogen producing plant today using electrolisis that uses nothing but green energy. We have wind farms that produce electricity. It would be very efficient to build a hydrogen electrolisis plant in the middle of a wind farm. All the electricity would be green and the excess would be sold.

The problem isn't that creating the hydrogen would be dirty. The problem is no infrastructure to distribute the hydrogen.


I will agree that hydrogen offers potential, and the source for the electricity to produce hydrogen does not have to be greenhouse gas producing in the future, however given the electrical sources we have now, it would be. That was Foxfyre's point I think. Hey, I'm all in favor of technological advancements with things like hydrogen, but I think there are far more problems to be worked out with using hydrogen than an infrastructure to distribute it. In fact, if the hydrogen was available and competitive economically, and the vehicles were built to run on it, it is a sure thing that the distribution would start popping up virtually overnight.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 06:01 am
On page 4 in today's "Albuquerque Journal"

http://i10.tinypic.com/2iup0md.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2ustwyo.jpg

(Similar) Online everywhere, e.g. here at 'Forbes': Global Temperature Highest in Millennia


Original report [James Hansen, Makiko Sato, Reto Ruedy, Ken Lo, David W. Lea, and Martin Medina-Elizade Global temperature change PNAS published September 25, 2006, 10.1073/pnas.0606291103 (Environmental Sciences-Physical Sciences)] as PDF-download
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 06:35 am
More on the funding (by oil and toabacco corporations) of front groups to protect their financial interests.

As Adolpho Schmidlapp, citizen of Dusseldort in 1942 said, "Well, sure they are moving out all those jewish people in cattle cars, but maybe it is just to a resort on the Spanish coast so they will be safe until the war is over. We ought to keep an open mind about it."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1881024,00.html
0 Replies
 
parados
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 07:10 am
Foxfyre wrote:
parados wrote:
Fox,

While tact might work in the sentence as you used it, it doesn't make much sense in the context of how you used it.

Quote:
In fact I think I'll copy the whole discussion as it might come in handy if he continues on this tact....

And this is fairly good documentation, absent several other of his personally directed slurs, that illustrates why I adopted my personal policy of not feeding, the trolls, arguing with idiots, or engaging in exercises of futility.


The meaning would be 'I'll copy the discussion if he continues using his keen sense of not giving offense.' Which directly contradicts your statement about not feeding trolls or arguing with idiots. Obviously, Cyc has given offense based on your later statements.

Certainly one wouldn't continue "on this tact". They would continue "with tact". Everything points to you misusing the word Fox.


Well admittedly there are other words that I could have used. But in American vernacular one frequently uses the term that is an absurd opposite to emphasize something that is ridiculous or just plain wrong.

Example: Blatham using the "Compassionate Torturers Handbook" to take a poke at me, or somebody quoting something absolutely assinine and commenting "absolutely brilliant!" to emphasize that it was anything but. Or referring to somebody as "learned, astute, wise, etc." when you are communicating that the person is anything but.

And given a member's propensity for rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, and inappropriate remarks along with an enormous double standard utilized almost every time he takes up a new subject, I thought 'tact' to be a much better term than the really rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, but quite appropriate terms that I could have used.

In other words, I tried to be as tactful as possible under the circumstances.

Get it?

Probably not, but that's the way it is.

Tack, on the other hand, would have in no way communicated what I was communicating.

I will concede that I may not have communicated as clearly as I would have liked if those who do not share the member's dislike of me didn't get it either.

I understand irony Fox. I also understand word usage. If you had intended to use the opposite meaning in an ironic fashion then you would have used "with tact".
0 Replies
 
 

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