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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 08:27 am
parados wrote:
Foxfyre wrote:
parados wrote:
Fox,

While tact might work in the sentence as you used it, it doesn't make much sense in the context of how you used it.

Quote:
In fact I think I'll copy the whole discussion as it might come in handy if he continues on this tact....

And this is fairly good documentation, absent several other of his personally directed slurs, that illustrates why I adopted my personal policy of not feeding, the trolls, arguing with idiots, or engaging in exercises of futility.


The meaning would be 'I'll copy the discussion if he continues using his keen sense of not giving offense.' Which directly contradicts your statement about not feeding trolls or arguing with idiots. Obviously, Cyc has given offense based on your later statements.

Certainly one wouldn't continue "on this tact". They would continue "with tact". Everything points to you misusing the word Fox.


Well admittedly there are other words that I could have used. But in American vernacular one frequently uses the term that is an absurd opposite to emphasize something that is ridiculous or just plain wrong.

Example: Blatham using the "Compassionate Torturers Handbook" to take a poke at me, or somebody quoting something absolutely assinine and commenting "absolutely brilliant!" to emphasize that it was anything but. Or referring to somebody as "learned, astute, wise, etc." when you are communicating that the person is anything but.

And given a member's propensity for rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, and inappropriate remarks along with an enormous double standard utilized almost every time he takes up a new subject, I thought 'tact' to be a much better term than the really rude, unkind, malicious, hateful, childish, but quite appropriate terms that I could have used.

In other words, I tried to be as tactful as possible under the circumstances.

Get it?

Probably not, but that's the way it is.

Tack, on the other hand, would have in no way communicated what I was communicating.

I will concede that I may not have communicated as clearly as I would have liked if those who do not share the member's dislike of me didn't get it either.

I understand irony Fox. I also understand word usage. If you had intended to use the opposite meaning in an ironic fashion then you would have used "with tact".


Sorry but my meaning is what I said it was. "With tact" would not have worked in the sentence at all.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 09:15 am
blatham wrote:
More on the funding (by oil and toabacco corporations) of front groups to protect their financial interests.

As Adolpho Schmidlapp, citizen of Dusseldort in 1942 said, "Well, sure they are moving out all those jewish people in cattle cars, but maybe it is just to a resort on the Spanish coast so they will be safe until the war is over. We ought to keep an open mind about it."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/story/0,,1881024,00.html


And you expect your opinions to be taken seriously with postings like that, blatham? And you don't think people and nations pursue their political interests?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 07:44 pm
Sharks pursue their appetites. That's natural. But do you want on in your pool?

al Qaeda or the KKK or the Catholic church will pursue their perceived interests. Do we just leave it at that, or do we make discriminations?
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Tue 26 Sep, 2006 08:41 pm
blatham wrote:
Sharks pursue their appetites. That's natural. But do you want on in your pool?

al Qaeda or the KKK or the Catholic church will pursue their perceived interests. Do we just leave it at that, or do we make discriminations?


So politicians have wholesome appetites and businesses don't? I'm not naive enough to believe that although you might be? In case you don't know the definition of politicians, blatham, it derives from the word, politics, which comes from two words, "poly" and "ticks." "Poly" means "many" and "ticks" are "blood sucking creatures."
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 06:11 am
Cute definition. (Of course, it's really from the Greek "polis")

In representative government, an elected politician has as his/her fundamental responsibility, forwarding the interests and the good of his/her many constituents. "Of the people, by the people, for the people" as Lincoln voiced it. A person holding office may well not behave in accord with this duty/responsibility. Then we can boot him out.

A business entity, like a large corporation, is quite another sort of creature. It has as its fundamental reason for being the production of profits for owner/shareholders. Doing good for the community isn't in any way a necessary element of its reason for being or for its operations. What constraints exist to prevent such an entity from acting destructively (not in accord with the good of the community) are only whatever laws/penalties we put in place to control their behavior and the personal morality of the decision makers in that entity.

A perfectly reasonable activity for a corporate/profit-seeking entity ("reasonable in this context means "can make money") might be designing and producing plastic weapons for al Qaeda operatives or, in a real example, the dissemination of nuclear technologies to North Korea, Libya and others from a business/tech company in Pakistan.

Profit-making, as a goal and activity, is fundamentally amoral - that is, moral considerations aren't a necessary part of the activity. Such moral considerations must be injected via laws or via persons in the boardroom insisting on moral behavior. So we have tobacco companies selling a product which kills members of the community and we have them also lying to the community regarding this health information.

Public office is fundamentally a moral undertaking, in our form of government. "For the people" means for the good or well-being of the people of the community.

Would you want unelected General Electric to take over all government functions? Why not?
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Wed 27 Sep, 2006 06:23 am
This piece represents only one of very many examples of how this administration functions. It is a classic case.

The two characteristics common in all these cases are:
- information control... release for public consumption ONLY that which forwards your administration or party's political goals and hide what might hurt your party's poltical goals, regardless of the integrity/responsibility duties of elected officials to keep those who elected them informed of what is true and what is real.
- act in support of large financial interests, rather than in the interests of the community.

Quote:
WASHINGTON - The Bush administration has blocked release of a report that suggests global warming is contributing to the frequency and strength of hurricanes, the journal Nature reported Tuesday.

The possibility that warming conditions may cause storms to become stronger has generated debate among climate and weather experts, particularly in the wake of the Hurricane Katrina disaster.

In the new case, Nature said weather experts at the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration ? part of the Commerce Department ? in February set up a seven-member panel to prepare a consensus report on the views of agency scientists about global warming and hurricanes...

In February, a NASA political appointee who worked in the space agency's public relations department resigned after reportedly trying to restrict access to Jim Hansen, a NASA climate scientist who has been active in global warming research.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060926/ap_on_sc/hurricane_report
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 09:23 pm
At the risk of posting something I have before, I am posting again, as I was looking at this site and the absolutely "INCREDIBLE CORRELATION TO SOLAR CYCLES." The data seems pretty cut and dried and pretty inescapable in my opinion. As to why Al Gore appears to be ignoring this or dismissing it as very minor or insignificant is not only unbelievable but revealing. I recently listened and watched Al Gore's presentation, and I don't remember him giving this any credence at all.

Anyone with an open and honest mind, read this and look at the graphs top to bottom and then try to tell me with a straight face that solar cycles are not a major player here. I don't think you can or should even desire to do so.

http://www.tmgnow.com/repository/solar/lassen1.html
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Thu 28 Sep, 2006 10:21 pm
What are you trying to do, okie? Get this thread back onto global warming, or what.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:35 am
How many times are we going to go over and over and over the same crud? Lassen's graphs have been shown to be due to conflating several different types of statistical smoothing and the correlation disappears when the latest data points are added properly

http://www.realclimate.org/damon&laut_2004.pdf

This is at least the third time around.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 12:54 am
At least, some good, hopeful news:

Scientists have predicted that the hole in the ozone layer above Antarctica could be healed within 70 years. The prediction comes days after the hole reached its maximum size for this year, breaking previous records for late September.

Hole in ozone layer 'will shrink'
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 03:50 am
username wrote:
How many times are we going to go over and over and over the same crud? Lassen's graphs have been shown to be due to conflating several different types of statistical smoothing and the correlation disappears when the latest data points are added properly

http://www.realclimate.org/damon&laut_2004.pdf

This is at least the third time around.
thanks user

it may be the third time for you but its the first time I've seen such a devastating rebuttal.

Shame really I was counting on the sun's magnetosphere crashing to save the world. Oh well.
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:39 am
cnn addresses Inhofe's recent claims re global warming...

Quote:
O'BRIEN: But some Republicans are fighting a different battle. Listen to the Chairman of the U.S. Senate Committee on the Environment.

INHOFE: I'm going to speak today about the most media-hyped environmental issue of all time, is the word that gets everybody upset when you say it and the word that many or the phrase that many politicians are afraid to say and that is global warming.

O'BRIEN: It's not new ground for Oklahoma's senior senator. Jim Inhofe has repeatedly called global warming a hoax. Despite a steady stream of stark evidence, melting ice caps, rising sea levels, the warmest temperatures in 12,000 years, the senator is not convinced.

INHOFE: During the past year, the American people have been served up an unprecedented parade of environmental alarmism by the media.

O'BREIN: In a 45-minutes speech on the Senate floor, he voiced skepticism over this graph called the hockey stick. Despite some flaws, most climate scientists consider it the best t depiction of Global Warming. Inhofe says there's evidence that the an arctic is actually cooling, even though most scientific findings suggest the contrary and point to the loss of major chunks of ice sheets and shelves. And he says the polar bears of the arctic are thriving, even though two of the most influential wildlife agencies say they are veering toward endangered status. Inhofe is all but alone on capitol hill these days. Most Republicans believe the scientific juror is in...

O'BRIEN: We should point out in the recent five-year period, Senator Inhofe received more than $850,000 in campaign donations from the oil and gas industry. Inhofe challenged the media to get this story straight in that speech, but when we asked for an interview with him we were told he's too busy to speak with us this week.
http://thinkprogress.org/2006/09/28/inhofe-diatribe/
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:47 am
Quote:
Senator Inhofe received more than $850,000 in campaign donations from the oil and gas industry.
Laughing what a jerk
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:51 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
Shame really I was counting on the sun's magnetosphere crashing to save the world. Oh well.



But otherwise the sun is working quite good:

In this northern territory, temperatures are rising, hunters are falling through ice and offices are using something they've never used before--air conditioning. One area is 5 to 11 degrees above average.


Blasting A/C in the Arctic

http://i9.tinypic.com/2ngfk7a.jpg

http://i9.tinypic.com/2iuvvy1.jpg
0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 05:56 am
steve

It looks like Reid is going to challenge Brown for the leadership. Please let me know (you can PM me) when/if you bump into any further data on ties between Reid and Rupert Murdoch.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:26 am
Steve 41oo wrote:
username wrote:
How many times are we going to go over and over and over the same crud? Lassen's graphs have been shown to be due to conflating several different types of statistical smoothing and the correlation disappears when the latest data points are added properly

http://www.realclimate.org/damon&laut_2004.pdf

This is at least the third time around.
thanks user

it may be the third time for you but its the first time I've seen such a devastating rebuttal.

Shame really I was counting on the sun's magnetosphere crashing to save the world. Oh well.


The rebuttal is not devastating at all. The supposed corrections still leave an overall rise in solar activity since 1900. I remember the site you posted now, Parados posted the same thing many pages back. If you look at the data, it appears solar cycles can explain some of the warming, if not most during the 20th century. I don't think the last 20 years is long enough time to judge what is going on yet.

So from time to time, I will keep posting this stuff just to remind some of you one track minders out there that other factors do in fact exist besides carbon dioxide.
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:37 am
From Drudge today: (ATTENTION SMOKERS!!!!)

GORE: CIGARETTE SMOKING 'SIGNIFICANT' CONTRIBUTOR TO GLOBAL WARMING
Fri Sep 29 2006 09:04:05 ET

Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore warned hundreds of U.N. diplomats and staff on Thursday evening about the perils of climate change, claiming: Cigarette smoking is a "significant contributor to global warming!"

Gore, who was introduced by Secretary-General Kofi Annan, said the world faces a "full-scale climate emergency that threatens the future of civilization on earth."

Gore showed computer-generated projections of ocean water rushing in to submerge the San Francisco Bay Area, New York City, parts of China, India and other nations, should ice shelves in Antarctica or Greenland melt and slip into the sea.

"The planet itself will do nicely, thank you very much what is at risk is human civilization," Gore said. After a series of Q& A with the audience, which had little to do with global warming and more about his political future, Annan bid "adios" to Gore.

Then, Gore had his staff opened a stack of cardboard boxes to begin selling his new book, "An Inconvenient Truth, The Planetary Emergency of Global Warming and What We Can Do About It," $19.95, to the U.N. diplomats.

Developing...
http://www.drudgereport.com/flash6.htm
0 Replies
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 10:43 am
Senator Inhofe's response to CNN's criticism:
http://www.epw.senate.gov/speechitem.cfm?party=rep&id=264027

Governor S of California, the greenest of all Republicans, has also received substantial contributions from the oil companies; far more than Inhofe has received I believe. I only mention this as my opinion that the contributions are less likely to influence a candidate than to reflect approval for what a candidate stands for which is probably going to fit with the values, goals, and/or purposes of the contributor.
0 Replies
 
okie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:55 am
How much is Gore's stupid book contributing to global warming vs cigarettes? Somebody needs to do a study, but think of all the paper production, ink for the book, and all of his jetsetting all over the globe to sell the book.
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Fri 29 Sep, 2006 11:58 am
And this just in, okie (actually it came in a couple weeks ago, but I just saw it today) Boston Globe, Sep. 18:

"Scientists studying the sun's energy output argue that solar fluctuations are unlikely to have played a significant part in climate change, at least since the 17th century and probably for several millenia. In the current issue of the journal Nature, the researchers, who include Peter Foukal of Heliophysics in Nahant, say the amount of energy emitted by the sun rises and falls by a little under 0.1 percent in step with the sunspot cycle. Thne variation is unlikely, even in the long term, to have caused recent trends in global temperature."

Haven't had a chance to track down the article itself yet.
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